Opinions wanted: Walt Disney

My in-laws' house... oh lord - the horror! I still wake up screaming.

Disney is a force of evil on the earth and Disney fanatics are just as scary as rabid Beatles or Star Trek fanatics. I pretty much actively hate most/all of the Disney movies made in the past 20 years and think of Disney World as yet another reason to stay the hell away from Florida.

On the other hand, I do have to confess that I like the early retrofuturism of the first-generation Tomorrowland in Disneyland. I still remember most of the "Now Is The Best Time" song (which should be the Extropian theme song) from the City Of The Future and Monsanto's "Journey Through Inner Space" is classic inadvertent neo-psychedelica. Hell, I even have an early poster for the Submarine Ride that I really need to get framed.

That World's Fair aspect of Disneyland is long gone and the few times I've been back to Disneyland have just been boring or borderline depressing.

I should note that Disney was very aggressively anti-union and earned the ire of John Hubley in the early days and Don Bluth etc. in the later days for the poor working conditions in his studios.

I loved Disneyland as a child (went there every year for a while) but had a very thorough and sudden disillusionment when I went there at age 12 or so; it had lost all its magic and all I could think about was the oppressive heat and long lines for rides.

Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio are astonishing still--I don't know what Uncle Walt's involvement in them was though.

I really picked up on this in Epcot which was missing the earnestness that I was expecting. Like everyone knew that the cool tech and futuristic eco-arcologies on display weren't *really* going to happen (like the permanent moon base I was promised in 1968) leaving only just a threadbare depression.

Ack... I need some sleep now.

Calum: Disney did create Mickey Mouse and drew the original design, though he wasn't much of an artist himself. (Incidentally, the famous "Walt Disney" logo bears no resemblance to his real signature) Iwerks re-designed Mickey and animated many of the first Disney cartoons almost single-handedly, but he eventually left the studio because he was being overworked and under-credited for his efforts. Like a lot of other obsessive, driven show business types, Disney couldn't stand the idea of sharing credit with anyone.

But in all seriousness, I was fascinated by Walt Disney, as a person. Disney, as an Empire is scary as fuck, Mickey Mouse is a user-friendly swastika, etc. etc. I did a couple of papers on Disney at school, both about his art - or rather, his "management" of other artists into a house style that is really rather beautiful if you look at things like the tour de force of animation that is Fantasia - and also about his f*cked up personal life. Ever notice how in all classic Disney films (and I'm talking about the ones that he personally oversaw the classics from the 30s, 40s and 50s), the mother is always dead or absent or evil? Walt Disney grew up without a father, in a house that was filled with women - a mother and two sisters. So he created this elaborate cartoon reality without mothers. I always found that vaguely creepy and odd.

I went to Disneyland - the one in California, at least - when I was a teenager. I was at the height of my fascination with Walt Disney, but I found it creepily disillusioning.

Anyway, interesting thread. Props to Calum for a good contribution!

The story of Walt creating Mickey on a train journey back home is false and has since been declared as such by the Disney studio who released a documentary and book on UB Iwerks with Iwerks' son's input. Walt wanted a new character after Oswald the Lucky Rabbit had been taken from him and asked UB to make one up. He changed the Rabbit ears to Mouse ears and Mickey was born. But the truth was never revealed in Walt's lifetime. There's a great two DVD set of black and white Mickey cartoons out just now in the States, well worth getting.

I loved Disneyworld, and have no idea how you couldn't enjoy it. I recognise the sweat shop toys, of course, but also understand that the amount of happy people from all races and religions enjoying the park is something to be valued.

*i mean in like 70 years hopefully

The 2 disc set is called 'Mickey Mouse in black and white' it is uncut and advertised as such, so all the un-PC black face 'gags' and so forth are in there, but with critic Leonard Maltin explaining the time they were made and why such stereotyping was considered acceptable back then. It was very limited and now sold out, but you can try ebay. It's worth picking up.

Really?? My boat got stuck in the last room of IASW at Disneyland Paris for 15 minutes once. I thought it was great.

If you avoid the weekends, there's still something, albeit plastic yet, cozy about being in Disneyland in the off-season. I can't really explain it. Part of that charm has been erased by new development though around I-5 and 91.

Part of the excitement was driving to that big wide parking lot with all the Disney characters denoting the sections of the lot, and waiting for that tram to take you to the gateway. And then being taken back the same way. It really did feel kinda special.

Now, they have this hideous multi-level parking structure instead that kills all of that.

I won't mention that fat brat nephew of Walt who's approving all of these shitty shitty rapings of classic films in the form of dispensible sequels, but anyway...

Anyway, Disney: representative of many bad facets of America (didn't his ideal small town at Disneyland used to be all white?), but behind (as producer rather than any kind of creative talent) some wonderful movies (Jungle Book is my favourite, not just because it features Louis Prima) and comics - Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse is enough to deserve a section in the history books, and Carl Barks's Donald Duck and especially Uncle Scrooge stories are even better.

Yup. Combination of small kids and a complete lack of restraints. Personally, I can't do IASW, but I don't mind similar rides elsewhere (e.g. Efteling's Carnival Festival).

Search: Tokyo DisneySea, Disneyland, Disneyland Paris
Destroy: Animal Kingdom (for christs sake, Six Flags Great Adventure beat you guys to the punch by 2 decades), Disney Studios Paris

-
Alan

Why aren't Disney comics more well known in the USA? It's bizarre- those things are popular like everywhere except the country that created those characters in the first place! I suppose Duck Tales was a half-arsed attempt to bring that universe to America's attention?

The comics deliver further material to analyze re: Disney's odd views on family/women that Kate pointed out, too, what with the enormous abundance of uncle/nephew relationships and NO PARENTS EVER.

(the best comics are still the ones made in Brazil, tho, especially Zé Carioca)

The uncle/nephew thing is a convenient cartoon character device that means you never have to talk about marriage (and therefore sex). I can't think of a happy married couple in a Disney film, can you?

B-b-b-but Mickey is constantly mackin' with Minnie, and Donald tries his best with Daisy, too. How is that any less sexual than mentions of marriage?

Oh yeah, he only pops up the beginning of a very small number of the cartoons to talk about the day in which they were made and put them into some sort of context. There are certain people who would want Song of the South (a tremendous film, albeit one that has to be put in time and context as it raises some problematic contemporary issues) banned for instance, so Disney is only covering its back. I imagine these same people would want D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation outlawed as well, regardless of how important it is in the evolution of film.

The Mickey Mouse in Color set came out 18 months ago, Black and White came out only 5 months ago, so that's the reason behind the price difference. I only managed to get three of the Disney Treasures range but they are very good.

To the person who raised the point about crap direct-to-video sequels... couldn't agree more. Although I suspect Eisner has as much to do with that as Roy Disney. The Carl Banks comics were tremendous, I have two huge compilation books of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck Gladstone comics from the 20s/ 30s - TREMENDOUS!

Some animation has brought me to tears - Martin Rosen's The Plague Dogs and Watership Down. We have an interview with Martin in the next issue of my 'zine (so, you see, we're not a 'shock horror' mag... I mean, urgh please! We cover all cult, underappreciated, off-mainstream movies). The Plague Dogs is a great film if anyone has yet to see it, Bambi with a more propaganda spin on the animal welfare/ rights issue.

archival material -- check out that canteen menu

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jordanzakarin/23-incredible-rarely-seen-photos-from-the-disney-archives

This American Experience four hour thing looks pretty dang good
anybody watching?

DJP is, according to social media. I should tomorrow.

I watched part of it. Interesting that Walt sought out NAACP input on Song of the South, then went ahead and did his own thing anyway.

Just finished the first half. Highly recommended so far.

I watched it over the last two days. The earliest part of his career was definitely the most interesting and innovative. Never realized he was so hands-off on the later animated features, but I guess he was busy with trains and theme parks by that point.

Mickey Mouse has never been funny to me, though. I don't even think of him as a cartoon character. Just a marketing device.

prefer donald, but the original mickey cartoons through at least the late '30s are good, and floyd gottfredson's mickey comics are excellent. mickey was sort of a different character back then; he became a marketing device around the time walt stopped doing his voice. but he was a good character for adventure stuff.

gottfredson is mickey mouse imo, the other functions of the character aren't worth noting

2nd half of the documentary crystallized for me:

a) how much of a vindictive shitbag Walt Disney was; and
b) how similar he was in his deranged attempts to recreate his childhood to Michael Jackson