The rules to The Big Read

I have read all the Harry Potter books twice. Anyone over 18 who nominates them as their favourite books should be sent on reading camp, where they are forcefed Heller, Irving, Roth, Woolf and Dickens until they can be trusted with heavy machinery, the vote, crossing the road etc.

Right, off to vote.

Anyway - Slaughterhouse 5 for me.

Channel 4 is also government-owned, but doesn't receive any government money. There used to be a complex arrangement whereby if Channel 4 made excessive losses, the ITV companies had to give it money - and in return, it had to pay them money if it made lots of profits.

not on 'classic heavy' but 'classics that have been turned into movies/TV series' heavy.

'Ulysses' was the one thing in the top 100 that i have actually read.

there was a discussion on these choices by a 'panel of experts' on BBC four in which greer attached the 'nazi' word to tolkien and india knight (the shittiest columnist evah though i have stopped reading papers) said that ppl couldn't possibly love 'ulysses' even though it was a poll trying to find the most loved books. you know the drift: some sort of intellectual nonsense even though there was criticism of the list for being anti intellectual (ie not having enuff booker prize nominated books). I got bored halfway through.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/bigread/top100.shtml

Actually quite an interesting list. A lot less modern than one would think (still this is an area where the canon is more consistent) but if you compare it to a similar pop music type list there seems to be a bit more going on here. If you take out the multiples from Pratchett, Rowling and Wilson the top ten will be quite a good mix.

Oh and he loved Hitler.

really?!

''Its also been argued that its an alegory for the fight against fascism, something that tolkein strenuously denied.''

fair enough, if that wasn't intended by him when he wrote the book.

Any more comments on what else is or isn't on the list. World literature in translation gets pretty short shrift - nothing French at all. Wodehouse prediction above confirmed. No Don Quixote either, (or Tom Jones bah - wasted vote). But it does have a few interesting things to say about who feels onfident to vote in these things - since Science Fiction is almost nowhere to be seen, but Fantasy is quite present.

I believe the top ten will be subject to a Great Britons style phone vote and TV program a piece.

it was agreed that children's books showed that those first few books you read prob 'stay with you'.

there was a lot of prachett: his latest book (published last nov) is on the list. was that the sound of andrew L screaming?

''I believe the top ten will be subject to a Great Britons style phone vote and TV program a piece.''

yes. it will happen in the autumn.

I have read *30* of the books and am feeling quite pleased with my general literacy wot with words an ting.

I am happy to see GORMENGHAAAAAAAST up there too! Hooray for goffick horrors.

But where o where is The Dark Is Rising sequence/the book of the new gothSUN eh?

also they suck.

Books I have never heard of on this list:

Artemis Fowl, Eoin Colfer
The Clan Of The Cave Bear, Jean M Auel
Double Act, Jacqueline Wilson
Girls In Love, Jacqueline Wilson
Holes, Louis Sachar
I Capture The Castle, Dodie Smith
Katherine, Anya Seton
Magician, Raymond E Feist
The Magus, John Fowles
Noughts And Crosses, Malorie Blackman
Perfume, Patrick Süskind
The Pillars Of The Earth, Ken Follett
A Prayer For Owen Meany, John Irving
The Princess Diaries, Meg Cabot, Author interview
The Ragged Trousered Philantrhopists, Robert Tressell
The Story Of Tracy Beaker, Jacqueline Wilson
The Thorn Birds, Colleen McCollough
Vicky Angel, Jacqueline Wilson

Facism sucks. But things that suck != facist.

Read the rules above Matt for why LotR is considered as one book. They make a degree of sense and at least make room for two more in the list. You need to read more Jacqueline Wilson. (No Anne Fine - that's harsh).

a better way to read LoTR is to consider it a riddle (viz who IS the lord of the rings): Tolkien loved riddles

the black vs white element is generally where the fascism/racism argument arises i guess: it doesn't survive close reading — as pete points out, the fellowship is an uneasy multicultural coalition: while the elves are announced as Beyond Good, the book is the story of their ending and failing (after they put right a great wrong they introduced into the world), and the central characters — hobbits and gollum — can pass for and even sympathise (kind of) with orcs, who are introduced as the construction of pure evil (anti-elves), but nevertheless complicated the moment he starts writing from their perspective (in the gorbag and shagrat exchange, the two orcs take a highly critical and sardonic position on goings-on "on high": they don't LIKE the nazgul, they fear them... ) (it is true that from a strict internationalist sociliast perspective, the fellowship should possibly have fought for the liberation of orcs from their ethical construction rather than their liquidation, but orcs are NOT people, any more than elves are => this is a REALLY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION for tolkien, in respect of the essence of the fairytale) (also tolkien was not an internationalist socialist, but nor wz churchill...)

there's also a strand of argument which reads gollum as a classic jewish literary stereotype (wheedling speech patterns, real name schmiegel etc): however seeing as gollum is (a) tolkien's favourite character and (b) the tragic hero of the book (he battles with his dark side and throws himself into the cracks of doom that the world be purged of sauron) and thus the actual real lord of the rings (the riddle solved hurrah!), this won't really fly either

he wanted to *rewrite* the norse/icelandic myths (and anyway he got his love of these from william morris, a kind of ruralist marxist, who regarded icelandic society as a model for the egalitarian worker's future

pete was joking abt hitler (he meant that tolkien liked momus)

how different is it, one is 12th and the other 20th ?

also how did he and god work out, being in the same circles as two of the more well known apologists (lewis and chesteron, but you knew that)

giles gets to be king bcz i. he defeats a dragon w/.o killing him, ii. he is sensible and not pretentious

the ideal of anglo-saxon liberties prior to the norman arrival wz a v.widespread trope in radical english arts-and-crafts politics (cf horne tooke et al): i think tolk belongs (somewhat) here

(it's true in fact that the nazis appropriated some of these strands of ideas from the german equivalent) (but this is evidence of a kind with "hitler was a vegetarian DO YOU SEE??!!")

can you explain that v. slowly, using handpuppets if nessc.

also the chesterton and lewis conundrum

Artemis Fowl, Eoin Colfer

Post-Potter cash-in with supernatural boy detectives and criminals. Fairy police etc.

The Clan Of The Cave Bear, Jean M Auel

10,000 page long stone age epic, found in every UK guesthouse.

Double Act, Jacqueline Wilson
Girls In Love, Jacqueline Wilson

Very popular children's writer, quirky tales of home life for 10-11 year olds.

Holes, Louis Sachar

No idea.

I Capture The Castle, Dodie Smith

Childrens book. Psychological themes I think.

Katherine, Anya Seton

No idea.

Magician, Raymond E Feist

"Tolkeinesque" (i.e. photocopy of Tolkein) fantasy fest.

The Magus, John Fowles

There was a thread on it a while back. Modern classic, never read it.

Noughts And Crosses, Malorie Blackman

No idea.

Perfume, Patrick Süskind

Stylish 80s lit sensation about smells and murder in 18th century. Pretty good iirc.

The Pillars Of The Earth, Ken Follett

Thriller I assume.

A Prayer For Owen Meany, John Irving

60s (?) lit fiction, don't know what it's about.

The Princess Diaries, Meg Cabot, Author interview

My First Chick Lit book.

The Ragged Trousered Philantrhopists, Robert Tressell

Socialist classic. R Hattersley will be delighted. Enormous.

The Story Of Tracy Beaker, Jacqueline Wilson

See above J Wilson entries.

The Thorn Birds, Colleen McCollough

Doorstop bodice-ripper, made into monster TV mini-series in early 80s. Another guesthouse classic.

Vicky Angel, Jacqueline Wilson

Her again.

"Hi, I'm a girl"
"Hi, I too am a girl"
"Oh look, my mother's dead"
"Hey, we're kinda different aren't we?"
"Yes, but we're also quite similar"
"Great"

That's every JW novel ever there.

This is another kids book, which was recently made into a movie.

'Oh my god my best friend's just been killed'

'Oh my God, I've been killed, but I'm going to come back from the grave and manipulate you, even if you were my best friend'

'This is great.....not sure I like this...I can't cope'

'oh dear, maybe I should go'

I can't actually remember the ending, it was so crap. Not sure why I read it to the end, to be honest.

"Hi, I'm black. Thus, I'm ghetto and urban and sassy"
"Hi, I'm a Goth. This means I listen to Radiohead and have deep intelligent emotions"
"Hi, I'm the main character. Because I'm the main character, I have no distinguishing features."

I would have picked Mysteries by Knut Hamsun.

on the road sucked. catch 22 sucked.

no wasp factory, no neuromancer, no microserfs, no anne tyler. pah.

and fab though owen meany was, garp was better. i mith him.

andy