what sort of idea do Iraqis have of America?

The guy standing on the right is the flamingest flamer in Baghdad, methinks.

Wait, what are you saying Horace? Are you saying Sly Stallone isn't actually on the American flag?

*world shatters*

Well it SHOULD be our flag.

alright Rocco!!!!

This is my flag:

http://www.cindyjackson.com/images/biography/union-jack.jpg

Quite a pole it flies from.

I think they prefer to be called the Polish, Ned.

Someone should tell her there's been a tragedy and all flags need to be lowered to half-mast

Mummy! Ned's being creepy!

You know what?

I found it HERE, of all places.

My favorite picture.

http://www.cindyjackson.com/images/biography/burtandcato.jpg

Um do you think the Iraqis really had immediate access to normal American flags as of yesterday? I'm sure there'll be a steady supply rolling in soon enough.

But of all the flags they had kicking around???

Stallone = 80s = last time Iraq had good relations with America and thus possibly the last time such imagery could be purchased in Baghdad.

I know this is a "joke" thread but still it seems insufferably patronizing.

Is that a "don't tread on me" rattlesnake in the corner?

No, I started this thread in all sincerity. I mean there's such a gulf of understanding between leaders of countries, and neither side's media have been all that clear in what the other cultures are really about.

there's the story of Japan showing Abbott and Costello movies during WWII and presenting them as an accurate portrayal of American G.I.s

And you only have to look at the different ways Japan has co-opted American icons to see how meanings can be radically shifted in different cultures. Sorry if this seems seems patronizing to you, and surely the thread started off on a downhill slide, but I'm serious about my curiosity.

Well I don't think anyone can answer it, at least I don't think any of us have much knowledge of Iraqi public opinion (statements on the "War is over" thread notwithstanding). It's a very interesting question though, now that I know the spirit in which it was posed. I was just sensing a "look at those crazee Iraqis" direction. Perhaps inevitable b/c of the dearth of actual knowledge.

Haha flip it and reverse it: what sort of idea do Americans have of Iraqis?

actually the First Blood series was very popular in the Middle East during the 80's

Well, I think in a way, the photo says at least as much about US Culture as it does about Iraqi culture, re: the way American Culture exports have given the rest of the world a very bizarre impression of the US.

http://fp.collectiblestoday.com/images/product/280/0912316001.jpg

we should send a bunch of these over so that they can have a more accurate impression of us

I don't know why everyone's sending me that photo. It seems no more egregious a piece of sentimental kitsch than anything else offered between the pages of Parade.

jeez, and here I thought I was backing up your point.

"Dude, are you being sarcastic?"

"I don't even know anymore, man."

[whoa just noticed Jess's citation of the same exchange on another board. mind-meld.]

Toppled
National styles of pulling down statues.
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 8:14 AM PT

All Saddam's horses and all Saddam's men ...
As I write this, 100 or so Iraqis are gathered in Baghdad's Firdos Square, trying to tear down an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein. Three men have set up a ladder, climbed up the pillar, and draped a long rope, noose style, around the statue's neck. Now they have climbed down, and a few others, including one very beefy fellow, are swinging away at the pillar with a hammer. The task seems futile. The pillar is about 30 feet high and 6 feet or so in diameter. The statue stands about 30 feet on top of it. A couple of American Abrams tanks are loitering about; they could topple the thing in a minute, but they seem disinclined, for the moment—leaving the task, as they should, to the Iraqis.

I am reminded of 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed and the Baltic nations took their own hammers to their most prominent statues of Lenin. Much could be discerned about national style from the effort. In Lithuania, the most emotional of the republics, the crowd just went at it, using all tools at hand, bringing down Vladimir Ilyich with great gusto. In Latvia, some engineers assumed the task, judging the statue's material, pulling up a crane, and taking it down very systematically. In Estonia, the town leaders coolly hired a Finnish firm to do the job.

So, what are we to make of this fitful flailing in downtown Baghdad? The crowd is still milling around Firdos Square, but they have stopped trying to topple Saddam's monument. And now, here comes the American tank. The Iraqis are now tying a steel chain, no doubt U.S.-supplied, to the statue, and the Abrams M1 will serve as the toppler. Oh, no; it's getting worse. Marines are getting up on the statue to pull it down themselves. One of them has draped an American flag over Saddam's head. What a moron! The very picture of neo-colonialism, which will make front pages all over the Arab world. Now he's taking off the American flag. No doubt, someone from Centcom, watching CNN, phoned the officer on the scene to chew him out and remind him of the orders against such displays.

A big sigh. Is this scene a sad symbol of the Iraqi people's helplessness, after 30 years of brutal dictatorship, to master their own fate? Is this an equally sad symbol of America's inability to liberate without conquering? Will the Iraqis need outside forces to oust not merely Saddam but the figments of his rule? Will the Americans help them without too strong a stench of arrogance?

What's the Ungarian flag doing on there?