More travel tips:Southern Portugal

There is also a natural park which runs along the coast calles Parque Natural de Rio Formosa, which has some spectacular beaches. One place you should definitely visit is Tavira, it sounds exactly like the kind of place you're looking for.

Renting a car is definitely the way to go. In fact, if you want to get around and see the best of the South of Portugal, what you should do is spend more time in the Alentejo instead of the Algarve. The Alentejo goes up the west coast right next to the Algarve. It's considerably less touched by tourism, much nicer and also cheaper, especially around Zambujera do Mar, which is a small town with a more relaxed feel to it, as is Mil Fontes just to the north of there.

I've heard the Alentejo coast is good,though - will definitely give it a look.

Consider visiting only places called "Lagos." Nigeria is wonderful this time of year!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/africa/03/nigeria_states/img/map.gif

http://www.algarve-info.com/travel/beaches.htm&h=287&w=383&pr

That being said....

In fact, if you want to get around and see the best of the South of Portugal, what you should do is spend more time in the Alentejo instead of the Algarve. The Alentejo goes up the west coast right next to the Algarve. It's considerably less touched by tourism, much nicer and also cheaper, especially around Zambujera do Mar, which is a small town with a more relaxed feel to it, as is Mil Fontes just to the north of there

...is pretty much OTM

Tx, Daniel. How? Where?

As I said, Gatinha gives some good advice.

As for the driving,yeah deserved alright, theyre shockers that said rentals are cheap and (bless the EU) the highways are great. A car is a must .depends what youre after you cant go to the Algrave and not blob out on some amazing, albeit developed, beaches for a few lazy days and boozy nights. Head inland though I cant remember where we went it all seemed pretty cool, especially the mountain vilages quite close to the coast...old Europe time warp material amazing. best cheap red wine in the world, and the foods not bad either... enjoy.

I wholeheartedly recommend you visit Portugal, one of the finest countries in the world. Anyone that is not blown away by Lisbon (Oh Lisbon, let me count the ways) cannot be my personal friend.

does anyone know how long it takes to get between the algarve and barcelona via train? i'm trying to figure out whether that's going to be doable or if i need to book a flight.

i just want to go right now

it's not southern portugal, but if anyone has been to or knows anything about the Madeira islands then i'd love to hear about it -- b/c that's where my maternal grandmother's family was originally from.

wow. those look lovely. what a location! i'm always gaming for new islands to obsess about and i think you just led me onto something

Well, I didn't go 13 years ago but I am going in May for two weeks. Would love any tips (starting from Lisbon), I know people say rent a car but I'd really prefer not to drive if possible.

Some Lisbon suggestions from the "Things to see and do in Lisbon" thread:
Things to see and do in Lisbon

I’m going to Porto and the Douro in three weeks, any recommendations? Or old threads?

Which part of town are you staying in and for how long?

Lisbon: the Gulbenkian is a must, amazing collection of art from all over. Try to find a good small tasca that has fado nights, the smaller/dingier the higher the quality of music is likely to be. Lux is atypical in that it is both Lisbon's biggest, most well known superclub but also has actual quality programming 100% of the time (be advised though - Portuguese nightlife only really gets going at 3am). If you're going record shopping,Peekaboo Records and Carpets & Snares are in the same old shopping mall, both run by highly respected DJs.

Porto's my old stomping grounds so larger post coming up.

The great thing about Porto is it actually quite small, totally walkable (though be advised it is very hill-y).

Tourist guides will probably point you to the Ribeira (riverside) first, and it is absolutely worth seeing, lots of historically protected old houses and a bridge built by Eiffel. Be advised though it is the biggest tourist trap in the town, do not sit down for anything more than a coffee you'll be absolutely fleeced. If you want to spend some money just cross the bridge to Vila Nova de Gaia and take one of the many port wine tours, which are fun and you'll get plenty drunk from the port samples.

The Palácio de Cristal gardens have the most beautiful panoramic view of the city and lots of peacocks wandering about, highly recommended. Speaking of gardens, Serralves museum is the only thing I'll mention that you have to take a bus or cab for, but it's kind of a must as well - for the museum itself and for the gorgeous gardens.

The restaurant scene has changed a lot since I moved away, I gather. Be aware though that the North is Meat Country, and things are still a bit tough for vegetarians/vegans, though it's changing - don't expect your average place to have more than a salad if you don't do meat or fish. If you DO though the food is great and by all accounts better than in Lisbon - try the rojões, alheira sausage or of course the mighty FRANCESINHA, on which I used to subsist during my student days. Cufra, Favo, Caetano are some places that iirc are still good.

Cinemas like Batalha and Trindade have been adapting to the influx of tourists and (urgh) "digital nomads" by showing some Portuguese films with English subtitles.

Record shopping: Muzak is a really nice second hand vinyl shop, ask the owner about his days running a club in the 80's! Matéria Prima for edgier stuff. You'll be at Rua Miguel Bombarda, so might as well check out the art galleries.

If you want something really unique and diy, see if Jubilant Relax is open. This is a tiny place run by mate Hélder and his wife - it's full of graffiti made mostly by Brazilian street artists and they host all kinds of concerts for the gen z talent in Porto. Hélder's a super interesting dude and they can tell you a lot about Porto and specifically the changes brought upon by the influx of Brazilian immigrants. Just say Reifferscheid sent you, you'll be treated like a king. :)

You might want to check what's going at the Casa da Música. Clubbingwise, the #1 address is Passos Manuel, run by the legendary Becas, a lgbt-friendly space that has fostered talent in Porto for decades; they also do concerts and cinema sometimes. There's also Perola Negra, formerly Porto's most notorious brothel and now a nightclub that I believe still attracts the best crowd. And hey, if you want to get pumped for nightlife in Porto, you might wanna watch my movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inZnQyUJVMA

Oh yeah, confeitarias (patisserie type places) - you'll usually be well served but my sentimental favourites are Nandinha on Serpa Pinto and Petúlia.

Thank you so much! I eat anything but my wife is pescatarian so seafood is totally cool. I had also read some hilarious google reviews of rip-off cafes on the Ribeira.

bookmarking this ty; Porto is very much on the 'next few years' shortlist

I recommend comfortable shoes, since there are tons of steep hills and lots of stone streets/walks.

Per renting a car, xpost, we did not (stayed in Lisbon), but we did hire a driver/guide to take us to Sintra for a day.

One last question, I’ll be doing a lot of rural driving. What are driving conditions s like in winter?

Specifically in the Douro valley

Wow, thanks all! My wife is fully vegetarian, so that's good to know. Was thinking about staying more south for the time of year (May), but really no plans beyond Lisbon yet. She's not super into spending time in big cities, ideally would go to smaller places and do some hiking during the day and get some good food at night.

I've always wanted to go to the national parks in the north, they look beautiful. Probably perfect for hikes, if you can get there.

And hey, if you want to get pumped for nightlife in Porto, you might wanna watch my movie?

Oh this is you? Very cool! Thanks for sharing. It does make me pumped to visit someday.

Thanks felicity! Yeah, I made it with my friend Francisco. Was a lot of fun talking to the old heads of the Porto dance scene and hearing their wild stories.

Josh, the Geres park is indeed amazing, I only scratched the surface of it but high recommend.

Boring, if your wife is pescatarian def try out some of the restaurants in Afurada - it's the part of Gaia where the Douro meets the ocean and there's plenty good seafood to be had. As for driving sadly I can't be of much help, never having gotten a licence myself...I will say one thing me and my fellow exiles comment on is that the longer we stay away from Portugal, the more of a shock it is to come back and see how fast everyone drives. I also now look back on the amount of times I got into a car whose driver was drunk, high or both and shudder. So uhm, there's that.

Jordan, I fear that your plans of exploring rural Portugal and your preference for not driving + dietary restrictions are indeed at cross purposes. Zero need for a car in Lisbon, and you can take trains to a lot of the other cities (many of which could be classed as small towns by US standards I'm sure), but the more rural it gets the more a car becomes essential. A lot of the country is only serviced by bus routes that operate on a "whenever the fuck we feel like it" basis.

This whole thread premise is interesting, anyway - I don't think "Southern Portugal" really has a coherent identity in the way that the North absolutely has. Alentejo and Algarve are very different areas, and I doubt they share much kinship outside of that which is shared by all of Portugal, i.e. a hatred of Lisbon.

Jordan, if you do make it South, the Alentejo is def one of the coolest areas of the country, strongest communist tradition, defiantly leftist even during the dictatorship, great music. Also economically deprived and with a v aging population, lots of villages near abandoned and such, very sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5ceatHhj14

My wife and I loved the Alentejo on our one visit to Portugal. I think of the little 2 room b&b we stayed at in the town of Mertola as my favorite place we have ever stayed. Beautiful hilltop town above the confluence of two rivers. The meal we had there felt as if we had a Portuguese grandmother.

my advice would be to not stay in bairro alto when in lisbon (unless you plan to be out til 5am every night)

my advice is to stay in bairro alto and plan to be out til 5am

welcome back lex how was your time away?

Loved the hallucinatory depiction of Lisbon in Poor Things - which pretty much matched my own experience of the city last summer - but wonder if the city’s tourist biz is suddenly going to go gangbusters?

xp wow

Oh tourism has absolutely gone supernova in Portugal in general and Lisbon in particular during the last decade or so, the country's entire post-eurozone crisis recovery has been predicated on it, at one point there were so many houses being used for airb&b that locals could no longer find housing in Lisbon and Porto...and this is without getting into the dreaded digital nomads. Don't think Yorgos will be able to make it much worse than it already is.