Travel in Eastern Europe.

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Anyone traveled there? Anything very different about it than western Europe? Are the stories about robbers gassing people sleeping on trains and stealing their stuff true (because I am thinking of taking some nigth trains, because those Eastern European trains are slooooow)?

Right now the trip is looking like Prague -> Krakow -> Lviv -> Budapest -> Vienna -> Cesky Krumlov -> Prague. Anything of particular interest in these places?

fletrejet, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

You will have the time of your life. None of these stories are true. It is still different from Western Europe, but getting less so every day. I have been to Krakow, Prague, and Budapest. All fantastic, but for very different reasons.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a magnificent time in Prague, great restaurants, bars, people not so friendly I found but nonetheless a great few days. It's nice being able to drink fantastic beer and eat in so many nice restaurants, and generally afford stuff you'd never manage at home.

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Radost FX and Cafe Velrhyba (sp?.) were both ace when I was in Prague (admittedly a while ago). Radost was a cafe/bar/record shop/nightclub/cinema type affair. It were great.

chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Are the stories about robbers gassing people sleeping on trains and stealing their stuff true (because I am thinking of taking some nigth trains, because those Eastern European trains are slooooow)?

Yes, it's true, although I'm not sure how common it actually is. Some trains have chain locks in the sleeping-cars, so no one will get in while you're asleep.

By the way, if you want to save money, the bus lines are usually cheaper than trains (they're slower too). Another way of saving money is taking a local train/bus to the border, then walking across the border, then taking a local train/bus at the other side as well. This is usually much cheaper than using international trains. This works between Budapest and Bratislava, probably between Budapest and Vienna as well. For other cities, Lonely Planet has more info.


Anything very different about it than western Europe?

Prepare for the fact that people speak very bad English or no English at all, even at international ticket counters. If you speak any Russian or German, good.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

my friend p. (who is black) wz just in slovakia: when abroad she generally likes to pretend she's american not brit, cz she says ppl are generally nicer and more excited — anyway this time she said they WEREN'T, that instead ppl just kind of shut up and walked away from her real quick (she is extremely gorgeous and charming, so this is not something she is used to...)

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Beware however of trying to sleep on cross-border trains in this part of the world, as multiple passport checks make it practically impossible.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I found the Marquis De Sade bar in Prague to be tremendous, it was an old theatre converted to a bar, really lush looking and a good atmosphere. Sadly they had no air conditioning and it was difficult to stay there for long in the evenings, it was unbearable. Still, in the daytime with a few less people it was a great spot, one we went back to several times.

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, buy a "In Your Pocket" guide (Prague in Your Pocket, Budapest in Your Pocket etc.) from a tourist office or a kiosk. They have good information on both the tourist attractions and the underground scene. Budapest, Krakow and Prague have their own editions, I'm not sure about the rest.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Tuomas, what's the name of that great big fancy art modern art place in Helsinki? It's great.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

when abroad she generally likes to pretend she's american not brit, cz she says ppl are generally nicer and more excited

Well, in a lot of countries people resent Americans, because they are thought to be arrogant and loud (I'm not saying you are). I've heard many stories of Americans traveling in Europe pretending to be Canadians, so people would be nicer to them.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I have heard about the border-town train trick, but I am not on a very tight budget and rather not complicate things. I was thinking about getting a 5 day Eurail East pass, which might pay for itself since I am goign tto Austria.

>Prepare for the fact that people speak very bad English or no English at all, even at international ticket counters. If you speak any Russian or German, good.

I speak a little Ukrainian - the reason I am going to Lviv is because I have family (whom I've never met) there. I have notice that the words for food in the Slavic languages are all similar, at least I will be able to order off a menu.

fletrejet, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Tuomas, what's the name of that great big fancy art modern art place in Helsinki? It's great.

It's called Kiasma, and I like it too. When it was built some people objected, because it was situated right next to a statue of a local World War II hero. Me, I couldn't care less; the aforementioned war hero also slaughtered a lot of leftists during the Finnish Civil War.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Kiasma, that's it. It's great. I <3 Helsinki.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

prague ain't all that and is, depending when you visit, full of tourists, etc. but, haha, it is one of the best places to fly to around that area, really, and there are some nice things in town, for sure. especially in the staré [old] město [town] and the malá [small] strana [quarter], which is on the opposite side of the karlův [charles] most [bridge]. it's not as much of an adventure as it could be--most anyone is [or appears to be] happy to speak english for you and with big signs trying to appeal to foreigners. most of the accents you can hear are american or german or french or italian or english. popular destination, these days.

náclavskė [wenceslas] náměsti [square] is the centre of the nové [new] město [town] and not square. it has plenty of nice shopping and eating places around it. radio free europe has been at the south end of this since nineteen ninety-five.

the pražský [prague] hrad [castle] and catedralá [cathedral of] sv. vita [st. vitus] are on one of the two hills on the west side of the river and definitely worth a visit.

the žižkov TV tower is further out but pretty cool.

there are lots of reminders/museums about communism/prague spring/velvet revolution.

they have an irish-cuban pub: 'o'che's'. but, just around the corner, is the nicer and more WESTERN 'james joyce'.

the marquis de sade bar IS nice [YOU ARE WELCOME TO UPSTAIRS].

the underground & trams are simple to use and cheap, especially if you get a few-days ticket.

krakow is nice and easy to get trains to. if you can, do not stay in youth hostels--I have had a couple of...funny experiences. the square and around the centre of town is nice and there are lots of places to go. I was only there for a couple of days and with a group of friends, so I didn't see so much. auchwitz is near to here. lots of people offer tours from krakow but it is a lot cheaper and not much more complicated to buy your own train tickets there.

budapest is lovely. but, again, have, haha, accommodation worked out. we turned up with nothing and, eventually, some friend of a hostel worker turfed a woman out of her apartment for a few nights so we could stay there. I'm sure she was fine, though. it's a very nice city to walk around. especially the pest-side of the river. and margaret island is great, too.

the royal palace on the buda-side is a must see, even with lots of steps to and from.

there's a statue park out of town. a bunch of old communist-era statues from around the town. it's not as cool as it could be. there are too few and they are all spaced out and on orange brick pedestals and in good condition. there should be LOTS and just DUMPED and partially-SUNKEN into the ground and shit. but. it's still funny. and some of them are pretty humungous. they sell latex lenin masks at the ticket box and many other corny, communist almost associated merchandise.

but, yeah, lovely town.

vienna is very expensive. especially after the czech republic and poland and hungary. but it's still expensive otherwise. very nice and more modern, etc. than the other ones so far. points of interest are quite far apart. againm, most people [staff in places, esp.] are only too happy to speak english for you. or they pretend to be, at least.

český krumlov is, apparently, one of the most beautiful towns in the czech republic.

I'd suggest that you could go via bratislava on your way from the hungary to austria. but if you can't do everything.

I'd also recommend a visit to brno. easily my favourite town in that area of the world. I lived there for four months last year. [not the only reason I love it]. it has a lot to offer and is v. pretty, etc., in its postindustrialness and w/ all its functionalist buildings. it's a bit smaller [in a good way] and more foreign [in a good way] than the capital and more exciting [in a good way]. OK.

the trains are slow and difficult to find at times. border inspector guys are, for the most part, unfriendly and, I guess, especially so to further foreigners. I wouldn't recommend sleeping on trains. unless you are very confident about the lock that might be on one in a hundred doors.

in all of these places [and, maybe, every other place]: be vigilant at all times and WATCH OUT FOR GYPSIES.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I was mistaken for an american a few times in brno [because of my OUT THERE apparel,I suppose]. they were usually friendly enough and more friendly when they found out I was scottish. one ugly, fat skinhead with a lonsdale[?] jumper had a go at me at five AM at a bus stop. I had asked him for a light and he sneered at me [from a bench] so I smiled and said "OK" and stepped back to the friend I was with. and then he said a few things to me. but I was up for a chat and replied to what I could. he kept saying "fuck america, fuck america." I said "OK." he asked where I was from. I said "scotland." he said "fuck america, fuck england." I said "scotland." he, eventually, managed to think I wasn't american or english and offered me a cigarette, telling me "fuck america, fuck england--scotland is OK." I said "yeah?" and took the cigarette as he was kinda threatening. he said "only one country: czech republic, poland, russia." I told him that was three. he said "scotland is OK--no niggers." I laughed! in shock and awe. his friend looked a little embarrassed. I said "fuck america?" he said "fuck america." I said "you're smoking marlboros, dude" and our bus arrived. his looked confused and his friend laughed as we got onto it.

I was kinda just happy not to have had my head pounded.

but, yeah, my only encounter of that KIND.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

oh wow, lviv is supposed to be fantastic. doubly fantastic that you speak the language and have family there. i tried to go there when i was in eastern europe, but getting a visa was a bit of trouble from warsaw.

don't worry about the gassing in trains, but do make sure you chain your bags to something secure in the sleeping-berth, and lock the doors as well. i have heard that rumor about gassing, but only from people who came from romania.

If you have extra time, Slovakia is very nice. It's very untouristed and has some interesting spots like the Tatras Mountains [shared with Poland], Ssissky Hrad [sp?], Kosice. Quiet, Pretty.

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Vienna rules, and can be done on the cheap. When would you be there?

Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, yeah. I heard that you had to PAY to get into the ukraine, or something.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I know that Ukraine requires a $$$ visa - basically, its a way for a poor country get some hard currency. I think its too late for me to apply for a visa ahead of time (my trip plan went through several mutations) but I heard you can get visa's at the border - my Ukie conacts are finding this stuff out for me.

I had Slovakia and the Tatras in my trip until I found out about my relatives in Ukraine - I will probably spend more time in Ukraine because its my heritage and all that. Alas, not enough time to see it all.

I will be in Vienna in early June, which i heard is evil tourist season. Are the wine bars what they say they are?

fletrejet, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

what do they say wine bars in vienna are?

i think Ukraine is one of those countries that have raised visa prices for Americans [wait.. are you american?] to $100... This, in retaliation for the US State Department raising visa prices to $100 for ALL applicants... i was pretty sure you couldn't get visas at the border, but maybe at Kiev airport - though maybe with contacts in ukraine, you'll be lucky! i hope so! ex-soviet embassies are a terror to deal with

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

You mean the Heurigen? They're all that, especially if in a group of friends. If you're staying in Vienna itself, hit the Eszterhazykeller, although the best ones with the nice gardens are in the outer districts. Get fresh wine and fabulous lardy treats from the buffet, spend little money, enjoy life. Keep me posted on the date as I will be in Vienna in June, though I don't know exactly when yet.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

why not hang around longer in the ukraine? go down to yalta or something.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah! lets FAP in yalta and have a Yalta Conference historical reenactment game!

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem w/ extending my trip much further into Ukraine is that I need to fly out of Prague. Luckily Lviv is at the very western edge of Ukraine. Yalta is on the Black Sea, right? That is quite a bit east, and I will have a loooong trip back to Prague - not too fun. Although I would like to go south and hike a little of the Carpathians in Ukraine.

fletrejet, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i've been to the czech republic and poland. didn't spend much time in either place -- did the usual touristy stuff in Prague, and spent a few days with family in Wroclaw and Kraków. (interesting that fletrejet is going to Lviv -- that's where my grandmother's family is originally from; like most Poles from Lviv, they were moved to Wroclaw after WWII when Lviv became part of Ukraine. someday i would also like to go to Lviv).

ditto what other people said upthread ... it's good to know either the native language or german. (i guess russian, too, but i know that a lot of poles really don't like being spoken to in russian, for reasons too lengthy to go into here.)

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 17 April 2003 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

the one thing that amused me re Prague was how much Czech history was made by people throwing people out of windows. it seemed like every castle or touristy place one visited in Prague, the tour guide would say "this is famous because King Vaclav threw the Prussian ambassador out the window in 1534." why are the czechs so fond of defenestration, i wonder?

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 17 April 2003 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it was about symbolism.

yeah, people in eastern europe can be far more receptive if you speak to them in german

wroclaw was really nice! stopped there on the way to krakow. they have a lovely big square with lots of narrow-fronted almost canal house-looking buildings. it was really sunny when I was there, too. they have a T.G.I friday's. I didn't go in. oh, and they have a wendy's in budapest.

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 17 April 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

yes i always wondered abt that "defenestration" thing!! also, did they OPEN the window first, or was it more like a john woo movie?

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 17 April 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)


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