On the state of children's entertainment

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In some ways I feel privileged to have grown up when I did, being a youngster in the early '80s, which I think was a real golden age for children's entertainment. Whatever I feel about their creators now, growing up I had access to Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Star Wars movies, E.T., Explorers, Close Encounters, The Neverending Story in various media, John Hughes flicks, Labyrinth etc etc. I could go on. I'm not saying these are all great works or anything, but they were great great stuff to watch as a kid.

So what do we have now? I've been feeling lately that maybe things aren't so bad. I'm not nuts about the Lord of the Rings movies (I don't hate them or anything, but I'm not in love with them), but I'm glad kids can see them. And I think it's terrific that fine actors like Ian Mckellen, Brian Cox, Christopher Lee, Patrick Stewart etc are involved (see also the X-Men flicks.) Robert Rodriguez's Spy Kids movies I also think are excellent things for kids to see (and adults too mind); colourful, creative, not pandering.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I see a lot of bad movies to partly make my living. So many of the kid's movies I've seen really want to make me cry (maybe the worst being this David Arquette movie See Spot Run, one of the saddest experiences I've ever had at the cinema, and certainly more footage of Paul Sorvino's testicles being bitten than I ever cared to see). But perhaps the tide is turning. What do you think? What did you love as a kid? If you have kids, what do you take them to see?

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the wiggles

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Cartoon Network means the kids of today got it sooooo much better than I did - Powerpuff Girls trump Ghostbusters: the Cartoon so much it ain't even funny.

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

God I remember that cartoon. And I forgot to mention the movie above.

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Slutsky most people prefer the children's entertainment they saw as a kid to the children's entertainment they saw later. Granted, the Spielbergian era did lead to more young boy adventure stuff (The Goonies!) than usual, but the level of quality wasn't really much better or worse than it is today moviewise. When I see an '80s film like Invaders From Mars and Neverending Story these days I'm usually shocked by how horrific it is. Lots of let's-kill-the-child bullshit. Lots of gore.

It does seems like the children's movies of today are more sitcomy, less action-packed. But it's always dangerous to assume things were genuinely better for children's entertainment when you were a kid, since the odds are you were simply less picky back then.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

if you see a kid's movie now it's either bad or good. As a kid it was more "AMAZING!" or "I'm bored let's play"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll buy that (and I was going to mention Goonies, which I don't dare revisit). But I hold to my thesis. I have very mixed feelings about, say, Spielberg, but I think as a children's director he just can't be beat.

I understand the temptation to romanticize my childhood, but let me ask you--do you think children's entertainment has held as a constant in the last 20 years or so? I think it does vary, and I do admit that I think there's good stuff being done now.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

plus pixar; I don't think kid flicks are as good now as they were mid to late nineties when you had the first (better) pixar flicks and several really great live actions children's movies (babe the big money maker, but also several others), and kiki's delivery service. if you take the nineties as a whole - peak katzenberg disney years, nightmare before christmas lumped in with the above - nineties maybe best decade to be a child ever

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't really say it was better in the '80s. I just think the success of E.T. made it more high-profile. I think there's a lot more shit out there now, but there's a lot more everything. The quality of films coming out in general I think is pretty constant (lots of shit, a few classics). It's just that the older we get the more cynical we are about it, and we miss the golden age of our naivete and youth rather than the golden age of movie quality.

There was this one imdb review where a 12-year-old said Jingle All The Way was like Major League II, "one of those movies where you know every line." I have a feeling neither film will make him happy when he revisits them in a decade, especially if he's showing the film to someone else, remembering it as being really awesome.

One of the few movies from my youth that is better than I remembered is Scrooged, the Bill Murray film. The ending is a bit off, but the early sequences are filled with jokes I simply did not get back when I saw it as a kid on HBO. Richard Burton impersonations, for one thing.

Back on topic, judging from the fact that I thought Batman was fucking incredible and that Who Framed Roger Rabbit and K-9 weren't disgusting, I'm not worried about kids entertainment today. They'll watch ANYTHING and love it.

But here's the thing, I agree with Blount those movies are better, but would I have liked them as much as a kid? Does Toy Story appeal more to the adult's idea of a kid's movie or a kid's idea?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a good question. Are there any 7-year-olds posting here we can ask?

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i think its pretty constant - the difference is that a lot of stuff supposedly aimed at children (Powerpuff Girls etc.) actually ends up watched and appreciated more by over 12s, but Cartoon network is designed for a universal audience rather than JUST kids, unlike say CBBC and CBeebies. another difference is that technology means new kids programmes today are impeccably executed and perhaps have lost that loveable charm that comes from ropey animation/graphics/cheap experimental equipment. CGI replaces the classic claymation or puppetry methods for example - this seems like a shame but thats progress, and of course many shows like Thunderbirds or whatever end up revived to enthrall new generations (i was surprised ny the apparent popularity of the Thunderbirds relaunch a couple of years ago as i didnt think kids would be into it but it was quite well received all things considered). another subtle difference is that unlike 20 years ago it is now impossible to get a job presenting childrens tv programmes unless you are aged 18-25 and considerably pretty. that never used to be an issue but it seems to have become a major one for TV in recent years and not just kids TV, and I wonder if there are any implications in that (the physical attractiveness of many new young presenters tends to surpass their skills with an autocue or general knowledge and intelligence etc.)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

anthony did you see toy story in a theater? cuz kids LOOOOOOOVED it (same with powerpuff girls, which maybe really popular with the twentysomethings, but is insansely popular with the important 8-9 year old demographic)

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

antz on the other hand...

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Wallace and Gromit and Bob the Builder videos are rather popular with my two year old upstairs neighbor. (I think he watches the Wiggles, too)

Stuff I watched 20+ (uh oh) years ago Pinwheel and various PBS shows. Well, that's the stuff I remember most (and most fondly).

It was in the 80s (thanks to the FCC) that the major networks stopped showing educational programs and were able to show what were basically half hour commericals for toys (He-Man and GI Joe cartoons, etc). I think this was not such a good idea.

This sort of ties in with the sad state of children's book publishing, but that's another story.

― rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

What are everyone's feelings on a certain H. Potter?

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(page and screen)

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Potter was a hero to most but he never meant shit to me, that sucker was boring as heck, mutherfuck him and that Shrek!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

haha! - it's not bad, I haven't read the books just because I have way too many things to read before I read a children's book (and eventually I'll think of a way to say that without coming off like a complete snob)

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I have an 8 year old boy (hes mine I've not kidnapped him or anything) and his end all be all of entertainment is Spongebob and the Southpark episodes he watches secretly after hes supposed to be asleep. And my conclusions on the state of childrens entertainment are that pee and fart jokes still trump Lord of the rings/Starwars/Potter productions as they have for generations of 8 year olds.

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw the 2nd Potter movie the other night and loved every second of it. The tree and the spiders were scarier than the basillisk whatsit at the end though. And the weird nonsensical "hurrah!!" finish was just bizarre.

(ok also i was running a crazy fever)

― jones (actual), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Now I don't feel so bad for feeling Spaceballs was THE FUNNIEST MOVIE EVER when I saw it in the theatre. I didn't know what a virgin was, but that virgin alert that stopped the Princess from kissing Bill Pullman was heee-larious.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, when you factor in the stuff we don't think of as 'children's entertainment' but you can be pretty sure the kids love anyway (south park, adult swim, vice city maybe - not a parent, don't know) it must be truly an awesome time to be a kid

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw it the other night too, Jones. And I was into it, though I did fall asleep. It was a lot like the first one, which I guess is neither here nor there.

Though I must say I was unimpressed by a lot of it--especially some very impressive-looking but uncreative action scenes.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Also saw Spy Kids finally slutsky. not awful but the kids said "cool!" too many times and the villains weren't scary enough (a.cumming's creepy cute schtick notwithstanding)

(haha my prescription here = strand them with no-one but weirdo gangly british kids to relate to and then TERRIFY THE HELL OUT THE LITTLE BASTARDS, obv)

― jones (actual), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'oughta see the second one, it has a great opening sequence.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Ever notice how movies that children love are filled with jokes they couldn't possibly get? Bawdy sex jokes, double entendres, racial stereotypes? The worst big-budget movie ever, North, seems to exist solely to introduce children to every stereotype ever: Jerry-Lewis loving frogs, keee-razy Texans, ching-chong Chinese. Jon Lovitz makes a borscht joke (for the kids!) and Africans swing on vines. Only gay people get left out.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

you actually make north sound watchable

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"they're spiders but they're HUGE" - how creative can you get??

(if i said i might rent SK2 RIGHT NOW i wouldn't be lying)

(but i might still be delirious with illness)

― jones (actual), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

DO IT JONES!

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

PS: I think I passed out before the spiders showed up. Or maybe I passed out when the spiders showed up.

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Whenever I talk to a child about what they like, or chance upon a kids' movie on TV, I am reminded of all the ways I've forgotten to appreciate literature and movies and my brain explodes.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 17 April 2003 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The kids must love that!

― slutsky (slutsky), Thursday, 17 April 2003 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Nickelodeon is mostly horrible crap now. That's what happens in the Orlando heat.

Nothing remotely in the same league as "The Mysterious Cities of Gold" or as heartwarming as "The Adventures of the Little Koala."

― Cub, Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish Noggin would show Pinwheel

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Me too.

― rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The amazing and surreal Eastern European 70s and 80s fairy tale movies that they show on Sundays on German tv make me a little envious of kids who grow up in the DDR -- that, and the Sandmännchen.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I know, as pathetic as this may sound, I will watch vintage Sesame Street and I damn sure would watch some Pinwheel when they used analog synthesizers for sound effects.

Sesame Street was some wonderful stuff in the 70's and early 80's. God, it's fucking crazy, but that is some sublime television! But then again, it was pre-digital and they had bellbottoms, afros, and the streets of New York were their most beautiful. I know that I like Taxi Driver so much because there is a syncretic relation to the streets and architecture of certain Sesame Street skits.

I don't know if the Noggin programmers are aware of the smoke sessions that occur in the early AM. They have to be.

― Cub, Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

And might I add, that's part of the appeal of stuff like the Boards of Canada.

― Cub, Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:15 (twenty-two years ago)

well my boy is only 13 months old so we are in the teletubbies stage, and i police his viewing very carefully. one show i do like is 'blues clues' which has him completely absorbed, even though he is way too young to understand what is going on. that proves ( to me anyway ) that it is the presentation, not the action, that counts. ( in-jokes dont matter )
same goes for sesame street, and clifford ( the big red dog ).
but as i said, i am ( we are ) in the early stages yet.

― donna (donna), Thursday, 17 April 2003 06:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Slutsky, you should revisit the Goonies - it's even funnier as an adult! The boyf and I watched it together one miserable hung-over Sunday afternoon and we were in stitches.

― smee (smee), Thursday, 17 April 2003 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.analpassage.com/files/sloth.wav

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 April 2003 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Smee, The Goonies is scary and thrilling, not funny. (Just like I thought Ghostbusters was a straight-up horror movie!)

― le slutsky, Thursday, 17 April 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I forgot to mention what may be the greatest children's entertainment ever, The Muppet Show.

― le slutsky, Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

b-b-b-but the Truffle Shuffle..

I second The Muppet Show as greatest childrens tv show evah!

― smee (smee), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen, kids TV when I was growing up (I was born in 1975) had plenty of shit. Remember the Chuckle Brothers? And those crappy foreign dubbed series like Silas and the Legend of Tim Tyler, the boy who lost his laugh? How about Rude Dog & the Dweebs? Shite, all of it. Sure there was good stuff, but an awful lot was dreck.

As a general rule, comedies for children are *not funny*.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember liking a few things like E.T. and the Neverending Story, He-Man and such...my entertainment threshold was definitely lower than it is today. I much prefered books if I had the choice. I hated kids even when I was a kid. I can't imagine raising one with all the crap that's around today.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Let us not forget the Muppet movies neither.

― le slutsky, Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Madchen, I was born in '75 and I never even heard of the Chuckle Bros til I was in my teens (thank god!). I do remember Rude Dog and the Dweebs however, and you're right, it was big huge gigantic mammy pants.

― smee (smee), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000069BBI.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the Chuckle Brothers are still going - i caught them on TV the other day, and no it wasnt some Kilroy style 'showbiz and booze/drugs ruined my life' thing - they're still doing the exact same act they were doing 15 years ago...or maybe it was just a repeat

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Before they were 'brothers', they were 'hounds'. You may remember them in this form. No speaking, only comedy music and mimery. Yuck.

Ugh, are they still on? Just goes to show how nothing changes. Their spikey hair and moustaches reminded me of East Germans.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 17 April 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

They were on the Salon (not that I'm an avid Salon fan, just happened to freeze in horror mid flick - I swear!)the kept going "to me" "to you" and were totally cringeworthy - as usual.

― smee (smee), Friday, 18 April 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Shrek is the only film I can remember laughing while watching. I'm not humourless, I just am not amused by tv or films in a laugh out loud way, I just sit and think "that was funny". in person I laugh alot.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 18 April 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, admit it, you hate fun.

― rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 19 April 2003 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember liking "The Electric Company" when I was very young - though I can't recall a thing about it except the intro "Heeeyyyyyyyyyyy yooooooooooooouuuu guyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys"

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 19 April 2003 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Do they still show Electric Company reruns on Noggin? I watched an episode at The Museum of Television and Radio last summer. (I also saw Pee-wee's Playhouse, 3-2-1 Contact, and Andy Warhol TV)

― rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 19 April 2003 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

MATHNET!!!!

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 19 April 2003 05:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ooooo yes

― rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 19 April 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

hell yes MATHNET! my sister and I watche 3-2-1 Contact reruns for what seemed like eight hours waiting for some MATHNET.

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 19 April 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I see the girl from The Bloodhoung Gang on Law and Order all the time.

― rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 19 April 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

phil-two: any recollection of the great Easy Reader or the dj on EC?

(the comforting familiarity of morgan freeman EXPLAINED top left)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davechad/images/thecast2.jpg

― jones (actual), Saturday, 19 April 2003 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think too much of the really good children's movies, at least, these days seem to be completely aimed at adults. Like Spirited Away would be a great children's movie (there's not too much blood and gore like in Princess Mononoke which, ironically, did seem to be at least a little more aimed at kids. Remember where he shoots that arrow and the dude's head pops right off w/a gush of blood?), but I don't think I know a single child that's seen it. I blame Geek Ascendancy.

― Dan I., Saturday, 19 April 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

(i did rent SK2 the other night - it cured my fever! i could tell because halfway thru i started thinking "bah, this would be so much better without all these KIDS in it" and "christ the Joel Osment scourge has SIBLINGS" and generally feeling like my old self again.)

― jones (actual), Saturday, 19 April 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

this post brought to you by the letter A and the number 8

― luna (luna.c), Saturday, 19 April 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

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