knee jerk anti americanism, c to the d

Its mostly dud. 'Mostly' not 'complete and utter' bcz it can get ppl going and thinking abt 'things'. it has its own energy. but its tiresome after a while. enough knee jerk. more considered opinions and fact checking plz.

--Hal Hartley, "Ambition"

DID YOU KNOW: that being commissioner of Major League Baseball was George W. Bush's first choice of career? W only went into politics after Bud Selig stole that job from him. So really the war is all Selig's fault

Don't lump all of us into one convenient category. Stereotypes are not cool.

The reason most of us are patriotic is because we've grown up with stories of our ancestors/predecessors risking so much to come here, for a new start or for a better life. We patriots are grateful for what America has given our families.

Not all of us are ignorant. Not all of us care little for what happens in the outside world. In fact, I'm sure a great deal of us would like to be viewed as well-read, thoughtful, and well-aware of what goes on beyond our country's borders. It's just the minority of us that ruin it for all of you.

We sincerely apologize for all of the exported TV shows that have been foisted upon you. I personally cannot stand "Friends", "Jerry Springer", or any of the other idiotic shows that I was shocked to discover get exported to the rest of the world.

I also apologize for the Clintons and Monica Lewinsky. And Richard Nixon. And televangelists. And McDonald's.

Many of us are really good at self-deprecating humor. We can tear ourselves up better than anyone else can. But trying to join in by throwing in an American stereotype is not kosher.

I think that anyone who considers themselves anti-American and is not from America could be forgiven for thinking so, because they really don't know what real America & what real Americans are like. We are not rude, we are not lacking in culture, we do care about intellectual things, and we do care about international issues, especially those that concern members of our varied families who live outside the U.S. If you just learn about who we are and disconnect us from whatever governmental issues you happen to disagree with, you will grow to love us as individuals.

If you're anti-American and actually live here in the States -- well, there's no hope for you. I could go on a diatribe about not being grateful, but diatribes are for people I'm angry toward and I don't feel angry toward you. Instead, I feel sad for you, that you don't recognize that we live in a great country and that things could be so much worse for you (and for me) had your (my) ancestors decided to stay where they were. We are a giving society -- we give so much in aid to those in our country and in other countries who are impovershed. And while there may be no such thing as "the best country in the world", we are pretty damn good.

I'd say the main problem with america is all the white people. :)

Board semi-lurker Stripey remembers dealing with a British couple back in the eighties on one of her family's European trips (as a side note, thinking on some of Dee's observations above: her family was a working middle class one where both parents were teachers who saved up all year so they and their kids could go on extended trips through the Continent during summer, including many stops behind the then-Iron Curtain -- it was a very practical and broadminded way for everyone to see and learn about more beyond the States, in art, in culture and in life, and clearly Stripey's extremely thoughtful and considered takes on issues in the wider world were shaped by this non-packaged-tour non-glitz approach). Back to the story: said couple apparently rode Stripey and her family hard about Reagan and his various evils, as they saw it. Stripey finally ended this by asking something along the lines of, "So we can blame you for Thatcher?" That shut them up pretty quick.

The reason most of us are patriotic is because we've grown up with stories of our ancestors/predecessors risking so much to come here, for a new start or for a better life. We patriots are grateful for what America has given our families.

I like this take because I think this is something that Momus, for instance, ignores or doesn't always seem to want to acknowledge when it comes to the present day, at least, or else appears to subsume into a consumerist dream, correct me if I'm wrong -- people can and do want to come to America for reasons other than the ones we ourselves might want (or our friends or relatives or ancestors) for coming here or staying here.

That said, patriotism to my mind is not defined by simple love of the country as it stands but a desire to improve what it is. America -- as country and concept -- is something I've understood over the years now to be an unfinished project, an open-ended experiment. One of the most interesting things about the country is how the ideals it was supposedly founded in either took years to bring to fruition -- the abolition of slavery, the extension of the vote to all and so forth -- or are still not yet quite there. To my mind it's a useful reminder that many different things could always still yet be under review in the mind's eye if one is an active citizen -- but I wander from the subject a bit!

As someone who has to deal with these kinds of people on a daily basis, I have to say I disagree; ignorance is no excuse. At this stage of cultural development, I'd say that it's pretty much inexcusable for anyone to consider themselves anti any nation whatsoever. There's tons of governments that I don't approve of, but I don't go around calling myself Anti-Chinese (par example.); to assume that you have the right to flat out dismiss an entire culture just because of its leaders' political decisions or some of the more moronic cultural exports (and the only people who'd think that America is all about Jerry Springer are the kind that watch that kind of television in the first place; those that listen to Caetano Veloso or read Borges won't have too much trouble grabbing a hold of a Bob Dy...ok, I'll say Patti Smith record before Ned gets a chance to say anything snarky or a John Steinbeck book) is just plain bigoted, and I feel exasperated when I hear so many otherwise perfectly reasonable ppl define themselves as "Anti-American" and dismiss American culture in general. I really don't see how that's forgivable in any way, it's maybe understandable under a certain light but it sure as hell ain't ok.

(fighting sleep as I post this, hope it doesn't come out too incoherent)

D'oh!

ok, i'll give you a hint... thinking that the rest of the world is backwards and therefore america is the 'right way up' is probably a reason for a lot of anti americanism in the first place.

Bottom line is, if you search hard enough into any countrie's culture, you'll find loads of great stuff, both amongst "high" culture and pop culture...and even if you actually do hate every single (or at least the overwhelming majority) of the cultural products of a country, that still doesn't give you the right to be "anti" it because there's still human beings living there and those cannot be simply discarded even if they don't make pretty films or music or fucking pottery. Alright it's off to bed with me...

i enjoy a lot of things about american culture and i have some american friends, thanks to ILx. the problem with american culture, as i see it, is that the bad stuff is so overwhelmingly pervasive and impossible to avoid.

Name Bosko Balaban
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Experienced this at work the other day, very nice guy who basically thinks the US is a fascist state - "they don't have the same freedoms we have over here in Europe" (he actually said this!) - capable of just about any evil you can imagine. Not helped by the fact that we were working with was a left wing Spanish guy, so anti-American almost by definition though in a more measured, thoughtful way. Anyway, over the course of a few hours, I managed to reason with him and get him to explain and, in some cases, moderate his more outlandish opinions. I still feel like the next time I work with guy I should wear one of lapel badges with the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes entwined.

That didn't come out very well, was working with a flag-burnin' Uncle Sam hatin' Englishman and more nuanced Spaniard.