the physics of sympathy

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do you think sympathy is a right or is it something that needs to be 'earned' first? if one confides in a group of strangers about something that is obviously troubling them, how much *should* (not 'will' - 'should') they receive in return? among compassion, indifference and derision, which are fair game? do ethics come into play at all?

a corollary: is this weakness? do you have contempt for people who ask for help or seek connection in this fashion? if so, please try and delineate why, preferably without resorting to empty nonsense about 'tweeness' and 'corniness' or whatever other de facto gobbledegook we've gotten into the habit of deploying when it comes to these matters.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

nb: by 'sympathy' i mean nothing other than your presence and willingness to communicate in a helpful/constructive fashion.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I, for one, find it much easier to be sympathetic to someone in a faceless setting such as this, as opposed to someone blubbering on my shoulder, getting tears and snot all over my brand new shirt.

― absolute skittles, Monday, 28 April 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sympathetic to ALL humans. You don't need to earn my sympathy, it comes w/being alive. Now, it's possible to lose my sympathy, but you'd have to try pretty hard.

― buttch (Oops), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a huge hypocrite, though, because the moment I feel like some kid's abandoned old Spice Girls CD, I'm the FIRST to want to go and snot up someone's new shirt.

― absolute skittles, Monday, 28 April 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Sympathy is over-rated. Empathy is the new sympathy.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

plus, I know firsthand what it's like staring in the blank face of a friend's suicide, and wondering whether or not I could have made more of a difference, by being less selfish.

― absolute skittles, Monday, 28 April 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

A cold slap in the face is the new sympathy.

― absolute skittles, Monday, 28 April 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"a corollary: is this weakness? do you have contempt for people who ask for help or seek connection in this fashion?" --

is that an attempt to suss out the little mini-fascists among our ranks???

― absolute skittles, Monday, 28 April 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm more empathetic than sympathetic.

― luna (luna.c), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

just an honest question. i'm curious.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

do you think sympathy is a right or is it something that needs to be 'earned' first?

In a forum specifically set up for support for certain kinds of people -- for example, an alcoholics anonymous forum set up for alcolholics -- it is reasonable to expect some sort of sympathy and support when discussing that problem.

However, in any more general type of forum, it is entirely unreasonable to demand and expect sympathy for different types of problems. People might feel some sympathy for you...and they might not. It can't be approached with some sense of entitlement! Nobody is really owed a shoulder to cry on, after all.

― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

let's not get too tangled up in the semantics of empathy vs. sympathy

nb: by 'sympathy' i mean nothing other than your presence and willingness to communicate in a helpful/constructive fashion.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I find most people's problems very boring. This helps to explain why I've always hated therapy -- because I end up sympathizing with the doctors (who have to hear the same whining day in and day out, and they HATE it; I can see it in their eyes) more than I do myself and my own stupid issues! On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing...

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

nicole does your answer change when you apply the will/should substitution?

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

jody what constitutes whining?

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I find it very easy to empathize with others and as such I sometimes feel hurt when I want sympathy and don't get it. It's far more pronounced with people who are close to me than it is with strangers, but I often find it hard to stomach that someone can't see why I'm feeling the way I am.

That said, I think it's an irrational expectation on my part, because I don't think I should be guaranteed any sympathy from strangers (by mark's definition of sympathy).

I don't think it's irrational to expect sympathy from lovers, family and close friends. In that case, it is often the amount of sympathy expected that can be problematic. i.e. I should get sympathy from these people, but I shouldn't expect them to fix what is bothering me, as they often cannot.

― martin m. (mushrush), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I tend not to expect sympathy from anyone. I know I started a "I hate myself" thread the other day, but it started as a question "does anyone hate themself?" as I genuinely wondered if it was a common phenomenom, if people felt it was over-reacting, or whatever.

I think some people here do actively seek "sympathy", and they tend to receive it because they are seeking it amongst people that know them. Is that sympathy? Empathy? Or what you'd expect off your friends? I do get sympathy off people I know, but I don't seek it, don't expect it, and certainly wouldn't feel miffed if I blethered on about hating myself and no-one felt sorry for me.

I choose not to elaborate about my problems here as I don't want to. If I talk about any "issues" here, then it's because I'm interested in the general opinions of others, rather than being self-centred. "But what about me!? I have problems. Be nice to me" is not my style.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and related to Jody's post: I find therapy much more helpful with a therapist who [appears to] sympathize with me. While I recognize therapists can be useful who are simply able to recognize patterns of behavior and respond accordingly with suggestions and guidance, I don't respond as well to them unless they seem to be both recognizing/responding from a place of knowledge and sympathizing with my problems/issues.

― martin m. (mushrush), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Whining:

a) acting like an immature brat w/r/t a situation or person that they can't change

b) acting like an immature brat w/r/t a situation they CAN change but on some subconscious level don't want to

c) complaining about (and I don't just mean "criticizing") things that are ultimately pretty insignificant

d) acting like the world always has to come to a screeching halt every time they get a little contemplative

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(by the way YES I DO realize how well any of this describes me)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

nicole does your answer change when you apply the will/should substitution?

I honestly don't know, it's too hypothetical. It would be nice if people were able to feel sympathy for everyone, but that's not the way the world works. It's harder to feel sympathy for some people than it is for others.

― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 28 April 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think sympathy is a right and I don't think it can be earned. I guess it is a gift. And, as said earlier, there are some places where that is assumed, eg close friends, family, support groups.

Expecting sympathy as a right is dangerous. It can lead to dodging responsibility, which I think is what Jody Beth is getting at?

― isadora (isadora), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think sympathy is a right and I don't think it can be earned. I guess it is a gift.

OTM

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the relationship sort of defines the level of reasonable expectation. A year ago, when I was unknown here, I guess that turning up and whining about my divorce troubles or depression would have been treated kindly enough, but just with politeness. Now, if I say anything like that, I get real sympathy. I think I have got close enough to some people that I feel as if I more or less have the right to expect that. Same with my old friends who I've known for decades. And this relationship thing allows inclusion of AA and the like.

I don't think I ever have a right to sympathy in some sort of 'basic human rights' deal, just on the basis of a relationship (friends) or an implicit contract (AA).

I try to be sympathetic to people here. It's generally easy, because I feel it. If I don't, I'm polite or leave it to others.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I treat sympathy-with-real-people the same as I do in fiction. If someone's lost their child or dog or job on page one, I might think "that's a bad thing to happen to someone," but I don't have any investment in it. For all I know, they turn out to be Darth Vader or a Dickens villain, and had it coming. Check back with me around chapter four, I'll let you know if I'm ready to give more than a lip-service damn.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll be sympathetic to the people I feel like being sympathetic to. I love my family and friends; I appreciate their presence in my life and the things they've done for me, and I enjoy "being there for them" (or however you wanna phrase it). But sympathy doesn't really come easy with me, and I often find that those asking for it have some manipulation tactic up their sleeve; I fucking hate it when people play up their past tragedies or current flirtations with victimhood to grab some cheap pity or make their personalities seem more colorful and multidimensional and act like they're the only people in the world that anything bad has ever happened to.

Oh also, I hate the whole "us girls gotta stick together" feminist-solidarity thing.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

people should expect civility and a lack of cruelty or sarcasm. they can't expect real heartfelt sympathy though. (i think with family and close friends and such, they're the first people you can go to for sympathy, but you can use up their quota and start annoying them if you do it too much...everyone's point of annoyance is different.)

when i go specifically searching for sympathy i tend to say something like "i feel like shit and i want some sympathy!" and then i get a hug or something. it works better than sulking and hoping someone will notice...cheap pity is NICE sometimes.

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people just FAKE sympathy, but even I can see through it sooner or later.

― ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm so sorry Christine. That's terrible!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Another massive dud: people who use giving sympathy as a manipulation tactic

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Simply the pits. Nothing lower on this earth. Anywhere.

― ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I don't think it's a right, but I do believe in social responsibilities, and people who demonstrate compassion whenever they find it possible are the only ones that could be said to have actually earned anything. It's a give and take thing - it doesn't have to be equal, but you have to give when you can. Else you're shit.

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

eight years pass...

sympathy to Austerity Ponies for that poll he chained himself to

― Whiney Houson (WmC), Monday, 2 April 2012 17:56 (fourteen years ago)

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