Are you glad the Pyramids were built?

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Despite the fact that their construction depended on slave labour?

― Nick, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Seems an awful lot of trouble to go to merely to keep some razors sharp.

Seriously though, I think this question has an awful lot in common with the UN Conference of Racist and the question of apologies for slavery and reperations.

― Pete, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

if they hadn't been fininshed, there wd have been an email from our head of personnel saying could we all pull together on this, and loyalty to the org blah blah, and yes after work wednesday evening and no, overtime does not apply

― mark s, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

apparently peasant farmers in ancient Egypt used to run away to become slaves building the pyramid because it was a handy number - a job for life, guaranteed food and beer and stuff, and the whips were only for show.

― DV, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Whips for show is going to be a requirement of my next job.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Erm...They didn't use slave labour. And I am glad, cause I get to study them when I go to university. Probably.

― Bill, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Am I the only person who doesn't care about the Pyramids? I mean, I'm not glad they were built. I'm not annoyed they were built. They were built, they are there. If they weren't there, it'd make about as much difference in my life as them being there makes, which is none.

I like whips, does this help discussion?

― Ally, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bill, sorry. I am guilty of succumbing to received factoid wisdom. Well I really just wanted to get people's views on great culture from a long time ago that couldn't have been produced without major human exploitation.

― Nick, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You mean like the first series of 'Big Brother'?

― Andrew L, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, not like that. They loved it.

― Nick, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

very few things in this world make me glad. the pyramids, however, are one of them. where would the world be without slave labor?

― fred solinger, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

where would the world be without slave labor?

I'll take "Punchable Comments" for $100, Alex... :)

― Dan Perry, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'll take "Punchable Comments" for $100, Alex... :)

ohhhhh, right. ;)

― fred solinger, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It was probably slaves who built those Buddhas in Afghanistan, and the fuckers blew them up. If those were built on YOUR exploited back, would you respond with a hearty chuckle, or would you consider it insult to injury?

― dave q, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick, why don't you just admit taht you are prejudiced against Pyramids? It would make allot of people around here awfully aroused.

― Pennysong Hanle y, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

he's right, you know.

― fred solinger, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick - Read I.E.S. Edwards' The Pyramids of Egypt if you're interested, it's about the best book there is. Anyway, culturally they were the near-enough pinnacle of that particular era of ancient egypt, I'd say. So they're still great. And there are so many of them!

― Bill, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I also do not care if the pyramids were build. I live in New York, for heaven's sake. It makes no difference to me. (The Sphinx I like, though.)

If they were built with slave labor, it was so long ago that it'd be practically impossible to find the descendants and give them reparations, and pointless because they haven't personally received discrimination at the hands of the conscious arrogant descendants of the pharaohs.

― maria, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

great culture from a long time ago that couldn't have been produced without major human exploitation.

I think this category encompasses pretty much everything in civilization ever. "Progress" has always been dependent upon the forcible concentration of wealth in the hands of a small few (church, monarch, or what have you) -- whence all those lovely cathedrals in Europe, all those monks and courtiers with the spare time to learn to do things like read and write and compose sonnets, all those jobless aristocrats who invented most everything really good.

I mean, not that exploitation is a good thing, but I do sometimes wonder: if some universal safeguard of equality had existed throughout human history -- if we hadn't had people lying around with way more resources than they should have and dreaming of things to do with it -- would global culture be nearly as "advanced" as it is now? My guess, from comparing long-history-of-organized-exploitation regions with autonomous-groups-just-puttering-around regions, is no.

― Nitsuh, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

(I think I'm arguing above that feudalist exploitation is the cornerstone of civilization. Which is awfully said but seems pretty true. I suppose people just can't form complex workable institutions unless someone starts them out by force.)

― Nitsuh, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But maybe that is because we view "progress" as buliding giant shit. What if progress was mroe inward (ie Einstein, Newton, Schwitters)

― anthony, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Feudalist exploitation /= paying people to do shit. Slave labor=forcing people to do things in order that they may not be killed or put in prison. I don't think anyone really knows whether the latter is true for the pyramids. I don't really care that the pyramids were built either, but I'm not gonna blow them up cuz of how they were made. (When I was about 10 my family and I went to see the pyramids. We told our taxi driver to take us to the pyramids but on the way he took us to some rug-making shop where a bunch of little children were making rugs. My parents bought a rug at the driver's goading. By the time we got to the pyramids they were closed.) I am glad the Moscow subway was built, but I suspect the labor pool for that project was somewhat less than legitimite (my appreciation for the Moscow subway is therefore partially directed towards the poor workers that constructed it). LOTS of people died making the Golden Gate bridge, so it's partially a monument to them. I am glad my license plate was made, because if it wasn't the cops would impound my car.

― Kris, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nitsuh, you could take the easy [Ayn Rand] way out and say "feudalist exploitation is the only way to go, the exploited deserve it. If they didn't then THEY would have planned out the cathedrals and pyramids themselves, right?"

― maria, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nitsuh I think I hear what you're saying but you really need to define "advanced".

― , Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Handy definition of 'advanced' - higher number of 'cultural components', i.e., arithmetical number of objects we perceive and use or conceptualize on a daily basis. More things = more advanced culture. BTW I count 'people' as 'things', but you knew this.

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the only sane answer to the original question is - Pyramids are just, you know, THERE. I'm not glad OR sad about it, my opinion would make no difference. However, if somebody comes up with a scheme to build a giant geometric monolith in my area and tries to 'persuade' people to volunteer, I'm not going for it.

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Really this is not the type of thing which concerns me

― Ronan, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I hope no-one flies a plane into them...

― Pete, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three months pass...

does it really matter to what degree of gladness i am moved to feel? whats done is done, and cannot be taked back. i have never seen the pyramids, i probobly never will...the fact of there existance at all, really isnt of my concern, nor will it ever be. I must say i disagree with all forms of slave labour, but is there really anything to be said for any race, since we all do it? we all have our monuments, and we have felt the sting of tyranny, dictatorship, and war....why dwell on an occurance that not only took place some where around 52,000 years ago, but really is of none of our concern?

― hollie powell, Tuesday, 11 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

A lot of trouble to make a place for a dead person don't you think. Why didn't they burn the egyptians ,put them in a pretty box then put them in the ground like today!!! so much work so many deaths

― Beckie, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Did anyone else read that great story in some paper or other which said they were all made out of cement anyway and didnt even need that many slaves?

― Tom, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Pyramids are crap, fuck them.

― Ally, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think pyramids are interesting but their kinda foolish ,people know their packed with gold, So they try to break into them and if successful they will steal something. And "Curses" who really listens to the stories?

― Beckie, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

All most all the pyramids discovered are broken into.

PYRAMIDS SUCK /THEIR C-R-A-P CRAPPPPP!!!!! f****

― Beckie, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I hate to be a pedant but, the pyramids are not 52 thousand years old. Maybe 5.2 thousand. Maybe.

Those Aztec temples are actually much cooler. I mean, if you're going to build this gigantic, monumental thing, at least show a bit of elan and sacrifice a few people on top of it.

― Kim, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

hi ya i am glag yhat pyramids were build.

― seharish jindani, Saturday, 23 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

The pyramids were built with slave labour.
First of all there weren't that many slaves and prisoners of war at the time because of civil unrest.
Second, the people who did build the pyramids thought that the pharoah was a god-king and thus, building a gigantic shrine for hiom would secure them a place in the bigger picture of the afterlife.

The pyramids rock

― Brad..., Sunday, 3 November 2002 21:13 (twenty-three years ago)

That's one of the reasons why a monarchy would be so cool: to have everyone build massive structures. Think about now with our current technology and population. If we had a monarch over any of the major countries that could control the non-monarchs to build things it would be awesome. There could be structures ten times the size of the pyramids. "build or die"

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 3 November 2002 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Um, we in the UK have one of those monarch thingies. We did get the Millenium Dome a couple of years ago. A terrific building that they filled with crap. I don't think this is what your vision is about, though.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 3 November 2002 23:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, it would have to be a monarch that has ultimate power with no prime minister or parliament around.

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 3 November 2002 23:30 (twenty-three years ago)

The 19th century bavarian King Ludwig had megalomaniac fairy tale castles built around the country. But he obviously listened to much Wagner.

― dakatine, Sunday, 3 November 2002 23:35 (twenty-three years ago)

and the clean wrote a song about him. 'ludwig, ludwig has flipped his lid'

― keith (keithmcl), Monday, 4 November 2002 03:52 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

Anybody besides me scratch their heads at the last comment on this thread on September 10th, 2001?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Sunday, 26 January 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you mean the 11th?

The timings on pre-ILXOR.com posts are all to cock - Pete had just heard about the WTC but didn't clock how serious it was, I think.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 26 January 2003 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The pyramids are great. They hint at what humanity os capable of.
Like a lot of European cathedrals.

Religion might cause a lot of problems, but you can't argue with the architecture.

― mei (mei), Sunday, 26 January 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess the whole thing was: these are spectacular but was it worth the inhumanity of slavery etc. to build them? not like a lot of european cathedrals.

haha, religion is understandably troublesome, but architecture is TRUTH.

― RJG (RJG), Sunday, 26 January 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

N. is right above. If anyone ever asks what i was doing during the first plane going into the twin towers: I was to my shame posting on this thread and unaware of the significance.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 April 2006 06:28 (nineteen years ago)

eighteen years pass...

incredible pic.twitter.com/aau5DKG1zG
— Austin Ahlman (@austinahlman) March 27, 2025

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 27 March 2025 20:44 (nine months ago)

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