contre la vie ,contre le monde

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French press ,these, days, is haunted by a consistent “bagarre” concerning Michel Houellebecq latest literary effort : the book is dealing with sexual tourism and Arab communities accuse the talented author of racism . I haven’t read it yet . but I will . Have you ever loved an author , a director , an artist that deals with issues that you find repulsive ? I once had problems while watching harmony corine’s “gummo” with an ex girlfriend who was obsessed by cats ( scenes containing violence on kittens). Once I was talking with a friend about Genet who said that even if the French writer is one of his greatest love he always had problems while reading his books for the crude representation of domination dynamics in interpersonal relationships . A similar thing happened to me for Celine (but in this case it was for the political positions of the author). So what bout you ?

― francesco, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Celine Dion, political? Surely not! ;-)
I adore the Stones' song "Stupid Girl" even though it stinks of mysoginy. Bukowski is a drunk bastard. Yet I can't stop myself from reading his books. I think a lot has to do with the fact it is on paper (or on record). There's a barrier.

― nathalie, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's weird, I put off seeing 'Gummo' for the longest time, for the same reason as your ex. When I finally saw it, the feline content didn't bother me all that much.

― dave q, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Celine is a french facist exsentalist.
<Lit
Celine,Genet,DeSade , Murakami
I do not approve of non consensual Sexual violence but Christ they are talented . Sometimes as satirists but mostly as imagists.

― anthony, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

as for myself , I forgot to include denis cooper ....

― francesco, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sorry the second half got cut off
Film Refinsthal of course . ( Great Story Goebbels asked Fritz Lang to be his film maker , Lang told Goebbels he was Jewish, Goebells said we can over look that . Lang Said I cannot

Harmony Kormines work in Kids, Gummo and Julien donkeyboy was deeply savage . I think it was savage in a combonation of look at me and do not sheild your eyes. He had a great copy about the virtues of authenicicty and how Mentally Ill were much more disserviced by the uncle tomming ( wrong word) Hanks did in Forrest Gump then Harmony did in Gummo

I find alot of the italian horror fims i love aesthically misognyist which scares me

― anthony, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Anthony - who ever called Celine an "existentialist"? is that what he's officially called? by who? I never heard that before, is all. Not that I really know what "existentialism" is but it sounds all wrong to call him a (x)-ist of any kind.
I don't think he was much of a Fascist either. Anti-Semitism is my main problem with him. & I don't even think of that as much of a problem, I can't imagine anyone really being influenced toward antisemitism by him. He's my favourite author BTW.

― duane, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

All this said, i have only read a bit of his work in translation In the most rigid defintion ( ie existance precedes essence ). I think celine is a realvent example of exsentalism (sp). In the traditon of Genet he does not discuss who he is but what he does. What he thinks seems unimportant. The way his characters act is vital.

About the Anti Semtism . This is not a minor charge. He wrote some of the nastiest anti jewish literture ever committed to paper. His pamphlets of 1937-1941 were masterpeices of hate rhetoic , still used by neo Nazis the world over. And unlike Pound he refused to apolgize for them . In fact someone should study how the ostracism of Pound and Celine. ( sidenote Ginsberg met both of them in the summer of 1967 or 1968 , he convinced Pound, not Celine)

Anti Semitism does not mean Facist. Even his admiration of Nazis was not nesscairly facist i admit. There is alot of academic talk of Celines Facism though . A good book on the theme is
French Literary Fascism:Nationalism, Anti-Semitism, and the Ideology of Culture by David Carroll published by Princeton.

― anthony, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This perhaps should go on the pendant thread . Plus i am thinking of starting a Pound vs Celine but Doomiwe would kick my ass .

― anthony, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like Celine. Can't we rag on Knut Hamsun for once?

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"It is a well-established part of Liberal Mythology that all the brighter citizens, especially writers, artists, dons and other miscellaneous intelligentsia, naturally gravitate to the political Left. Actually many of them, including some of the most eminent, were very sympathetically disposed towards the Fascist dictatorships in the days of their glory."

Malcolm Muggeridge over Alistair Hamilton's fascinating 'The Appeal Of Fascism' in which details an impressive array of intellectual's flirtation with, or outright support for, the extreme-right; W.B. Yeats, Wyndham Lewis, Céline, Charles Maurras, Heidegger, Spengler, Malaparte, Roy Campbell, Ezra Pound, T.S.Eliot, Robert Brassilach (shot post WW2), Charles Maurras.

At a time of great economic, political and social crisis Fascism proved highly attractive to many thinkers as the only way forward. A fact conveniently forgotten and overlooked, but dangerous if hoping to understand and combat it effectively now eg in Belgium where the neo-Fascist Vlaams Blok is the third largest party in Flanders.

― stevo, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Big fan of Peter Handke - wrote 'The Goalkeeper's Fear Of The Penalty Kick' amongst other great bks - but his rabidly pro-Serb stance during the Balkans conflict is v. difficult to defend.

Celine - surely he's a nihilist rather than a existentialist?

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If somebody doesn't understand the appeal of fascism to (certain) smart people then how can they criticise fascism itself?

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Have you ever loved an author , a director , an artist that deals with issues that you find repulsive ?

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I would almost say, that those in general are the most interesting artists. Celine, Bukowski, Burroughs, Ballard, Selby Jr. Dennis Cooper (that fuckin stabbing dwarf in Guide, unbearable), Ellis, Goya, Bosch, Ferrara, Korine, Getto Boys, Suicide, etc, etc. This tendency to keep staring at horror always puzzles me, I never can turn away. :( The last book that I found fascinatingly repulsive was James Elroy's 'The Cold Six Thousand' (so nasty I just had some problems recalling what the title and author was).

re: Houellebecq, he would be my perfect choice for the "People who you think are overrated yet you do know too little of" thread. He just gives off this aura of being a total cunt.

― Omar, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

omar- yeah stabbing dwarf is one of the most morbid things happened in last decade's literature. houellebecq has a talent in using controversy for promotional purposes and I wouldn't say he's the most technically talented guy around but has a fascinating take on moral bankrupt born out of the acceptance of ultramaterialistic view of life

― francesco, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Surprised that nobody's mentioned the Japanese yet. Anyone for Mishima, or the rest of those sexist, patronising, racist, militaristic sadists?

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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Anyone for Mishima, or the rest of those sexist, patronising, racist, militaristic sadists?

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Yeah they rock. See 'Violent Cop', the coldest movie ever and 'Tokyo Fist', the greatest film, period. Followed of course by Testuo 1&2 esp. the sodomising bee-yatch of I and the villian holding the blown- away baby hands in II.

― Omar, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mishima = too prissy for me
Céline suffers from rubbish translations (Trotsky defended him in the late 30s, but I have not the defence to hand)
Houellebecq = the french martin amis? (heh)

― mark s, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

houellebecq/amis = adorno/stanley crouch

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Genet suffers from officially the worst translations ever. Worse than Japanese computer manuals. 'Thief's Journal' - "You stinking yellow- belly stool pidgeon, give me my share of the swag!"

― dave q, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I confuse Mishima with Murakami. A bit of an idiot i am . I read confessions of a mask when i was just starting to come out. Not the book when you are trying to be happy happy happy about your blossoming queerness . However the work that i find most beutifully sadistic is Patriotism. No one expressed the ritualism of sadism better for me .

I would like to point out that Our Lady of the Flowers worked better for me then the Theiefs Journals . Ballards Crash is one of my favorite books. As well Burroughs Westeren land series. All violent and sexual .

― anthony, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i really liked Houellebecq's Atomised, and i didn't think it was controversial to be honest, maybe i missed something.

― gareth, Tuesday, 11 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Atomised is halfway to being a really good book - Bruno is a fantastic and entirely believable character, Michel is barely there, and it slips into being a so-so sci-fi novel (like Miss Smilla only not a quarter as bad) - but I think Houellebecq's didactic bits are excellent, direct and thought-provoking, even when the novel he puts them in service to doesn't hold up.

― Tom, Thursday, 13 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

unlikev the entire world apparently i really liked miss smilla (even if the end was a rip- off of ice station zebra, kinda)

― mark s, Thursday, 13 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...

seul contre tous: contre la vie, contre le monde?

what do you make of houellebecq now?

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

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