martydom

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Fthr Raphael Ngomo, a priest who fought to let everyone know of the evil and violence in the democratic congo, who taught, farmed, prayed and worked to bring liberation of his people, was massacred in Dodro this week by machete wielding "soilders"

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

link?

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony dear, was that title supposed to be "martrydom"?

Seriously though, the scenario you describe reeks.

― j.lu (j.lu), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, "martrydom"

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

seriously, was it supposed to be "mratyrdom"?

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this thread about famous Marty's? Cause I can only think of Marty Willson-Piper from The Church.

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 07:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking Marty McFly.

― Alfie (Alfie), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Martymcflydom is the martyrdom of the modern western youth.

Anyway, does the church officially declare people martyrs, and if so, does Ngomo qualify?

― Frühlingsmute (Wintermute), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I find the very principles of martyrdom deeply flawed.

I mean, the logic is - Person is willing to die for Cause X, therefore Cause X must be worth more than life itself. Which generally only leads to crusades where other believers go out and slaughter others in the name of Cause X, cause, you know, it's worth more than (other peoples') lives.

Me, I think if Cause X asks you to lay down your life, well somehow the logic of Cause X and its belief system are deeply flawed. Therefore it's probably not worth believing in.

But that may just be evidence more of my deep suspicion of both religion and politics, rather than human nature or anything.

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

that said kate.
this guy did good, and he can no longer do good.

maybe he can be hoisted as a symbol.
and dont mock my spelling.

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Doing good = very worthy.

Being a martyr = pointless perversion of doing good.

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

that said kate.
this guy did good, and he can no longer do good.

maybe he can be hoisted as a symbol.
and dont mock my spelling.

i have an wire story in front of me,but google turns up nothing.
wtf ?

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

i also disagree with you, martrydom is self directed, is a mediative practice.

crusades are war mongering often started by people who are not at risk (bush,bin laden, popes)

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are my freaking posts not turning up?

Doing good = a worthy thing

Being martyred = pointless perversion of doing good

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

What if you're martyred against your will? As I suspect most "martyrs" are.

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If in your death others can see your cause and It benefits them to try and be good or encourages them, goodness comes out of it. It just comes down to the worth of life. Can you do more good with more time, or does your story do more good?

― A Nairn (moretap), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Martyrdom is as much something that is done to the martyr by the members of Cause X as it is the evil bastards that do the killing. Maybe it's the canonisation of martyrs that I object to. I don't know.

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that you choose to be so active when you know that it is dangerous, that is a choice.

can you explain this Martyrdom is as much something that is done to the martyr by the members of Cause X better kate ?

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not being a good guy that makes you the martyr, it's not even being a good guy killed by baddies that makes you a martyr - what makes you a martyr is when said good guy who has been killed by baddies is taken up and cannonised and "made a martyr" which involves a very fundamental glorification of killing - and therefore leads to the "Good Guy was martyred, therefore it is OK to kill Baddies in response" reaction, rather than people saying "be glad of and canonise Good Guy for his good actions" rather than his support of Cause X or his death.

This is complicated and I'm having trouble explaning myself, but it's just a glorification of death and killing which is troubling and dangerous.

― kate, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but if you look at early Christianity the practice martyrdom was more of a survival mechanism for the cult than a glorification of killing; sure it was a glorification of death, but when your compadres are being murdered left and right in horrible ways it can be the only way to hold onto one's beliefs. For better or worse I suppose.

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

(=I Blame the Romans)

― slutsky (slutsky), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just saddened to think that the world has lost yet another person who was fighting to make the world better.

But it happens every day, although their names aren't publicized.

I am thankful that we live in a world where people are willing to risk their lives to help others.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(=I Blame the Romans)

SO MANY CHRISTIANS, SO FEW LIONS (do not read if you are a Jesus Freak!)

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

seriously now ... what happened to this Congolese priest is certainly sad, and i don't mean to be disrespectful to him or his memory. but while i have sympathy for what kate is saying upthread, i don't think that this guy was thrilled about being hacked up with a machete. it may be an "occupational hazard" (the way that faulty machinery is an "occupational hazard" for folks who work in factories) and it may not have been unexpected, but that doesn't make it right or mean that he wanted to die in the manner that he did.

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think anyone's saying he did.

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

but to be a martyr you have to fully intend to die. So if he didn't he was just a person doing good who got killed in the course of it.

― isadora (isadora), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you?

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that the awareness of speaking truth to power in that time and in that place often resulted in death, and to contiune doing it, suggests a certain self awareness.

― anthony easton (anthony), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 05:52 (twenty-two years ago)

For sure. But is wilfulness a necessary prerequisite to martyr status in the Church?

― slutsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

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