So now that the Iraqi thing is over and we're all happy...

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...it would be churlish to talk about things like this, right?

Right?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.ams.ubc.ca/clubs/filmsoc/Pictures/Movies/Wag%20The%20Dog.jpg

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"If you want to start a fun conspiracy theory: the PFC Jessica Lynch episode was all a set-up.

-- fletrejet (fletreje...), April 8th, 2003."

When all my conspiracy theories turn out to be true, we should all be very very scared.

― fletrejet, Friday, 16 May 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, you're such a goddamn CHURL!

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup! Actually I'm still trying to figure out why the hell the Iraq management team was suddenly sacked and replaced over the weekend...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

WHen Gerry Bruckheimer has more sway at the Pentagon than congress, its time to disarm america.

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

How much was she paid to have "no recollection of the entire incident"?

Some time ago one of the doctors was saying that they had long conversations while he took care of her.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't wait 'til Spike Jonze gets more sway at the Pentagon.

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 16 May 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Joph Waters would be the best Pentagon director of Media corruption

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Saturday, 17 May 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

sick sad world

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 17 May 2003 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

so has the bbc responded to any of the many debunkings of this story yet? should be easy (if they're telling the truth)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

also more depressing: when people you take seriously take the bbc seriously or when people you take seriously take fox news seriously? (okay fox news easy, but still...)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard about this. Hmmm...

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

it's turning into one of those things where people hear the initial story, ignore the pointing out of huge holes and errors in initial story, and big media never actually gets around to retracting initial story, instead just makes a note to self to not bring it up much (ie. Judith Miller to thread)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

swallow what you want people, all that matters is how you vote

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

if military news managers want NOT to get roasted for stories like this — ie storiesd originating very possibly in the hysterical errors and misconceptions of the media and NOT generated by the military themselves — then the military have to be actually slightly occasionally encouraging of critical/sceptical courage, since this is where/how error gets challenged

a system designed so that instruction at the top get transmitted swiftly and accurately right down to the lower limits of this system = a TERRIBLE system for transmitting accurate information (the latter requires interrogation and doubt at every exchange)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the ethos of journalism and the ethos of soldiering are i suspect by nature opposed: attempts to make them fit each other neatly are doomed to failure

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Easy check on this: whatever happened to the Concerned Iraqi Citizen who allegedly saw her being slapped around and alerted soldiers? (If this was all something of a fiction, this character was massively underdeveloped.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

is that why the bbc hasn't debunked the debunkers? (again, extremely easy to do if the facts are on your side in the first place). are there any media sources who's primary concern isn't confirming the skepticisms of their target audience? why is sloppy journalism 'the truth' when 'we' do it but 'propaganda' when 'they' do it?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

james it's completely unclear who the "debunkers" are in yr posts, or what story you think now stands

who has debunked what where? give some links!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

can anyone show me footage/screencaps from the rescue with some of these -

- in them? cuz if not (and betcha noone can btw), uh that's a pretty big hole (and hardly the biggest one).

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

According to the BBC, the Iraqi who gave Lynch's location to the US Army has since been granted asylum in the USA - getting his asylum application granted unusually quickly - and has already signed a large book deal.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

that said I'm hardly suggesting that the rescue wasn't overblown or overplayed in the American press - more the result of poor journalism than any 'partyline', I notice media awareness that, holy cow, guess what, there's women in today's military picked up considerably after a couple of them became pows (what it takes to get a q rating nowadays apparently). that said, one side effect I'd assumed/hoped would happen - the death of the 'women in the military' "controversy" - hasn't quite taken place (the national review's current cover story - 'why women shouldn't be in the military'. assholes.) and part of me finds it somehow depressing that the culture of the victim has reached a point where the only kinds of war heroes allowed anymore are pows. (hardly a new phenomenon - remember scott ross? can you name any of his rescuers? better yet - can you name any of jessica lynch's?)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the hole was there from the start, given the nature of a war: this was ALREADY sloppy journalism when the story went out in the first place with no interviews from iraqi staff and patients (and soldiers, come to that) at the hospital/prison, whatever it was, to confirm/refute a. the pentagon version; b. the bruckheimerised media version of the penagton version

now some time later we're getting those, and there of course massive differences in perception tied to differing ideological perspectives (!!) (fancy that! in a war!)

that image isn't working, james

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, check the address - http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-14/f2314009.gif - maybe there's some sorta voodoo security hex on it

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

we're all living in the matrix man

― Dallas Blount (James Blount), Monday, 19 May 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think there was a thread on this story recently, but I can't find it. It's from May 5. Same basic info as the bbc story but more complete, better written, not as accusatory etc etc.

"I told him he was very welcome, that it was our pleasure. And then I told him: `You do realize you could have just knocked on the door and we would have wheeled Jessica down to you, don't you?'

"He was shocked when I told him the real story. That's when I realized this rescue probably didn't happen for propaganda reasons. I think this American army is just such a huge machine, the left hand never knows what the right hand is doing."

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That first caption - "she has lost memory of her rescue" - is so brilliantly demagogic it's wonderful, it makes you think the US military is run by brain-zapping aliens. Ha ha, AS IF.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

colonel breen to thread! < / obscure quatermass-related in-jokes >

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"that's enough stark idiocy for today, captain potter! leave that to the civilians!"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

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