The Mechanism of Fashion

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Fashion is crazy, I just realized. Speaking strictly of visual aestetics, i.e. what sells in clothing, car design, electronic appliance design: we're talking about shapes and porportions and shit, and yet there are trends of what people want to see. To a certain extent this can be explained by idea-association, especially styles that recall earlier eras which people now jones for. But what makes a car like the Nissan Altima so universally appealing as it is now? Even I am fond of it, though I prefer the shit out of the Maxima and then of course that one with the number. How can we collectively approve of such a high-level gestalt that operates on a purely visceral level, supposing I am correct. I ask you. I ask you. It's a question.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Advertising.

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought the semiocrats would have a lot to say about this.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Fashion wouldn't be fashion if it weren't crazy. Then it would just be design improvement.

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"drapery"

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, I don't know if there are trends of what people want to see so much as some people make trends, and other people want the things that they think they can get from displaying their consumption of or awareness of the trend. This I think is constant.

What is interesting to me is how it is decided who makes the trend.

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

felicity is right on a mid to mainstream level but I would add that cultural signifiers are very important to fashion on ALL levels (including some of ILX's very own culture-jamming ethical stalwarts, among others).

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(cross post and she eloquently refs. signifiers in her gifted manner per usual)

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

other people want the things that they think they can get from displaying their consumption of or awareness of the trend

I think for most people to adopt a fashion it has to feel 'right', as in aesthetically 'right' at some level. Although they also want the status or 'coolness' (in the eyes of others) I don't think they will adopt it if they don't like it. But where that sense of something being 'right' comes from I'm not sure. I suppose it might be partly from the eye getting used to a certain look and then confusing that sub-conscious recognition with 'liking' it. I've experienced something like that often myself where an initial dislike of a trend has been eroded *. All this would work for mid period adopters but not for early trend setters. Actually it would also work for all but the earliest trend setters because they could be operating on the same level, just more rarefied (ie immersed in fashion mags and/or closely knit scenes).

* OTOH some trends I just don't like eg those pointy womens' shoes that came back into vogue a few years ago but I STILL don't like them for some reason. And Doctor Martens...I've always disliked them, in or out of fashion, although in that (DMs) case it might well be a lot more to do with an irrational sense that I don't like the people who wear/have worn them rather than an aesthetic view on the shape of the shoe itself.

David (David), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

you could also dislike pointy shoes for the same reason you dislike Docs ('persona'?). you could dislike anything for that reason. i tend to think that they are simply very wrong, but reserve the right to like them on the right person or in the right situation, if any. what you said.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 02:05 (twenty-one years ago)

After i went to college Ma Hand said "I don't know what your style is anymore", it was a small thrill but sad too

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but as far as what we're used to, we also always want something different. like cars right now are in a real rut, in terms of not looking new. toyota, ford, honda, they all look like they did five years ago, and nobody is happy. or I am not happy. except for the nissans. so maybe there is no great universal desire to have things look new, just a tendancy to get tired of old and settle on whatever was the first widly popular new thing. in that case, you're probably right it's what we're used to.

certainly nobody could ever by a fucking suv out of an aestetic sense of fashion: only the assoiciated ideas could motivate them. I think it's immoral to buy ugly cars.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

fashion also exists to legitimize needless acquisitioning/rampant consumerism. i mean, most people don't wait until their clothes wear out to stop wearing them, they only wait until their out of fashion, which depending on how desperate you are too feel special or withit or whatever, could be before you get the zipper in the back done up.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

good design is good design. it's Mitsubishi and other design-impaired brands that rely desperately on ads and image sculpting.

Aaron A., Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i wait until my clothes wear out and then some, before i buy anything new.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there is a historical correlation between times of economic downturn and insecurity and conservatism in car design from model year to model year. When the economy is bad, perhaps people don't want to buy cars they thnk are going to look dated quickly, as happens when there are radical design changes from year to year. Or perhaps people are more afraid to stand out from the pack by buying wacky looking cars.

The newness in car design seems not to be redesigns of existing models but the introduction or popularization of new models with iconic designs like Mini Coopers or Hummers.

A car is such a big-ticket item and massive investment that it has the potential to be a huge signifier of aesthetic values but let's not forget the obvious use-value as well. How ugly a car would you be willing to drive if you needed to?

The question of whether fashion drives consumerism or exists to legitimize it is interesting. It is all a problem of where to put excess capital, I think.

felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

What's annoying about cars is that, being big-ticket items, the manufacturers can't well afford to narrowcast in the way that other consumer products can. If ones choice of car signifies a lifestyle or a worldview, the lifestyle choices here exhibit considerably less variation and nuance than the ones associated with music, movies, clothes, etc. I can't even imagine what an automotive correlative to my tastes in other things might be. I feel much the same about furniture, although in both cases you have the choice of finding obsolete, used models--something like "shabby chic." But this seems like not so much a choice as a retreat. (What's interesting is when retro tastes fueled in part by people who can't or won't afford new products feeds in turn into the design of those unafforable new products.)

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I should add that this phenomenon--the choice b/t cars being much like the choice b/t presidential candidates i.e. not conducive to self-definition--being "annoying" to me probably points up the shallowness of the other forms of consumer identification that I'm guilty of.

I know I shouldn't lard any of this with guilt--but the economic issue of surplus wealth and what to do with it, also the issue of resources and their finitude, do seem to bring in an ethical dimension.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Automotive correlative to my tastes in other things ==> NY subway/taxis

felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

taxis? how decadent.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

and thus poss. quite appropriate.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I'm saying to you.

felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Seeing fashion as purely aesthetic doesn't necessarily work: it moves in trends because it's also a social and aesthetic language, and anything that communicates winds up moving in trends, no? Although with fashion the main source of trends isn't, I don't think, just "planned obsolescence" or "legitimizing acquisition" but on a simpler level the basic model of popularization and normalization.

(a) Seeing fashion as primarily aesthetic leaves something out, to me: beyond that is the fact that it's a tool of communication. People judge one another visually; "fashion" is basically the sum total of what you can communicate visually apart from your own God-given body. If fashion were entirely about ornamenting oneself with symbols of wealth the consumption criticism would have more sway with me, but that's certainly not the sum total of it.

(b) And anything communicative in that way is bound to work in trends, I think, since most people are pretty much in agreement about certain key things they'd like to communicate about themselves. I think a better model for fashion trends isn't planned obsolescence or constant acquisition but rather the regular old model of popularization and normalization. Of all the possible things to wear, someone hits upon something that manages to communicate what most of us want to communicate, which without going into it we'll just say is that we're "cool." An element of this "cool" is "special" or "different." Alternately, there's the pressing concern for most people not to be too different to the point where we seem, in our individual environments, to be "strange." (And yes, everyone has this concern: we all make different decisions about how far we want to go down this line, but we all have limits somewhere, as dictated by what effect our fashion would have on our interactions with others.) So someone finds something that signifies "cool" in part because it's interesting; their wearing it, by definition, makes it less interesting, allowing people further along the cool-or-just-strange spectrum to wear it too; and so on. This model tends to be applicable to pretty much any consumer-lifestyle thing.

(c) Basically I don't think this is incredibly shallow. Certainly it can be and in loads of cases is, yeah, and in lots of ways -- from inordinate fashion obsession to wealth-display designer fetish to whatever else. (Both of these things just "communicate" to me wrong: the fashion-obsessive, just like a record geek, winds up communicating to non-fashion-obsessives that he or she cares more than we'd like about a certain thing; the conspicuous consumer communicates some variant of snobbery.) But like I said, people form visual impressions of one another: I have a pretty high tolerance for people's trying to manipulate that visual impression and communicate things about themselves that way. Not so high that I don't think some people are going way overboard, but probably higher than most. Especially with shoes.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Especially with piss-poor cut-and-pasting skills! Yeah, sometimes I start over.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

So someone finds something that signifies "cool" in part because it's interesting; their wearing it, by definition, makes it less interesting, allowing people further along the cool-or-just-strange spectrum to wear it too; and so on.

How does wearing something make it by definition less interesting? If I wear a dress made of credit cards does that make credit cards less interesting?

felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

(That was bad editing as well -- for "interesting" read some subset of "different." I.e., if everyone wore diapers to work in a bank it would cease to be "interesting" to wear diapers to work in a bank, just as it isn't currently "interesting" to wear a tie to work in a bank.)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

(That whole thing above is just an overlong and obfuscating way of talking about the standard normalization process: as more and more people do stuff it becomes less unusual, meaning people who aren't big on doing unusual things can now do it, too.)

Also, F, I'm intersted in your question above about the arbiters of fashion. Cause it seems that at any given point the fashion that communicates "cool" does so because it's associated with a certain lifestyle that has some sort of cachet. But what lifestyles are considered to have cachet is in issue that moves in trends as well -- hence the belief that on some basic level all fashion is socio-political, however indirectly. (This is a common belief, right? I can think of at least two books I've worked with where academics use fashion to try and chart social transformations, and it's definitely an idea I buy, on the broadest scale. It all gets filtered heavily by the fashion industry and the consumption end of things and the tendency for people to sell the look of an Other group, but in the end ... people wearing trucker hats says something, doesn't it? Not just about fashion or aesthetics but about culture on a much greater level?)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the current trend for trucker hats, military detailing and designer cargo pants basically says "I know our economy sucks right now and there was absolutely no justification for that war we just had but all things being equal, I'm proud to live in America, where at least I know I'm free." Seriously, I'm not joking.

felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)


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