Dealing with betrayal and friendships [do not read if you hate whining etc]

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I was going to post this under my real name but I suspect one of the persons involved reads ILX so I won't (though it might be clear to some who I am and what this is about, personally I dont give a fig anymore, I'm too angry).

Say you have a very close and trusted friend, one with whom the line got crossed into fudgy relationship-ish areas. Say he puts his foot down after a while for that to stop, but you want to both stay close friends, and this is working pretty well until...

With this scenario, what do you do when a female moves into your home, and her and your close friend become chummy... eventually leading to them deciding to date each other, even though both knew the issues this would cause?

Having not quite got over my feelings for my friend, I not only feel hurt, but doubly pissed off because she lied about the situation to cover it up, and then moved out suddenly to (presumably) make it all "better" from a "moral" viewpoint.

I am so angry I could stab someone. But my biggest issue is this: I want to remain friends with my male friend. He means a lot to me. I don't know how to do this with the current situation, as right now the sight of this woman would make me want to be sick, and I don't care to see her ever again.

What the hell do I do to deal with this? Do I write them both off as assholes, or do I try and remain graceful and hope that the pain will die down and my friendship will regain course? Am I being unfair?

I'm in a right state. Suggestions welcome.

― Someone, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

write them both off as assholes. i have tried to be friends with people who dicked me over and it never worked. i'm sure they think i'm very immature and all, but blatant dicking-someone-over behaviour = NO FRIEND OF MINE so flip them the bird. i'm sorry these people have hurt you so bad, by the way. now is a good time to hang out lots with people you are certain you can trust and who will support you. whatever you do, do not try to console yourself with err mood "enhancers".

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've certainly written her off as one. Him, I'd like to, but I'm torn. Being angry is better than being upset certainly. Getting drunk is looking like a great option right now.

― dont you wish you knew, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

moderator to thread! btw di is right

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

write 'em off for now - when the whole thing's over, your friend will resurface with his tail between his legs, and if he doesn't, then he's not the sort of fellow you need around

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I missing the part where the guy dicked you over? That they lied about is bad, but I'd think forgivable. I'd seperate yourself from both people and work on friendships/relationships away from those two. Then having hopefully reduced whatever jealousy and rejection you might feel now, come back to deal with 'em as you see fit.

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for the comments (and err, rapid moderation) everyone, I think clearly a great deal of distance is needed, as I'm far too angry to be rational right now. For starters obviously my judgement is clouded enough to have forgot to log out of my last post *slaps self* how embarrasing.

Still. Onwards we go and all that.

― Someone, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with BNW - it's not really the guy's fault for falling for someone else (that it was your flatmate is unfortunate but I'm assuming he didn't deliberately go after her to dick you about), but at the same time he can't really be expected to live a life of celibacy because you both drifted into awkward relationshipish territory.

Dishonest and insensitive they may have been (how well do you know the girl in question?), but hardly unforgivable. But yes, what everyone else said, lots of space is needed.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt and bnw OTM. Without distance it can be nigh on impossible to separate someone hurting you from their being an all-out asshat. You should be angry and hurt, but you shouldn't cut your friend out of your life.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Explain to your male friend how you are feeling & tell him that you need to put some distance between you for a bit so that you can come to terms with your feelings & possibly move on (easier said than done i know!) to something else. This sort of thing is always hard & there's no easy solution. Get drunk, but preferably hide all phones so that you cannot make angry, drunk phone calls.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

It was bad of your flatmate to lie about how far things had gone, but honestly, I think that's probably the worst of it (and it sounds like she might not have had a definitive answer to give you for a bit, anyway). Moving to a new place and having your flatmate's 'crush guy' turn out to be a potential partner is a bit of a mind-boggler, just as much as it is for you to be boggled by this new girl moving in and getting something you want but can't have. And from what you've written so far, I can't tell how much she knew about your feelings for the guy. Did you stay up all night talking about him? Did she tell you she thought he wasn't good enough for you? If she gave you any kind of shoulder to cry on or ragged on him for not choosing you, then she's probably not a very honest person. If she kept saying how great she thought he was and they were clearly getting on as friends, then she's not at all dishonest.

If you and the guy she's dating really *are* friends, who he dates shouldn't be a problem (unless she's some kind of nutcase, but even then you've got to be honest and then back off to let the mental patient show through). If you're using him as a boyfriend substitute even though you've both agreed a romance is not on the cards, are you sure you wouldn't have been upset whether the new girlfriend was known to you or not?

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Get drunk, but preferably hide all phones so that you cannot make angry, drunk phone calls.

This is the best advice I've ever heard, and needs to be put in the Human Manual that I never got my copy of.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll post you a copy of mine Andrew.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

HUMANUAL!

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I deal with it incredibly badly, so I realise my input is useless. I wish I was better at it, as it's happened several times. (Conservatively.) Which makes me a needlessly bitter, untrusting character, sadly.

― ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't say to write them off forever, but you're obviously very angry and hurting right now so it's probably best not to be around them for a while.

― Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Suzy's advice is very good here. In the end who people date is their issue, and while it may upset people (other people who want to date them after all) it really is their issue. I certainly wouldn't make some kind of ultimatum - its our friendship or her because he'll almost definately jump the other way over such controlling behaviour.

Something like this has happened to me and I reacted at the time quite badly, but am now still friends with all parties.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Subtly denigrate her till they break up!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Probably don't, actually

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

which person in this story is Momus?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

jeez, don't you know anything? it's person Y!

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I can absolutely guarantee you that this thread is NOT about Mr Currie.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

We all know person K still can't post on these boards so slag off on the behind the back attacks.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, nothing really wrong has been done, but that doesn't stop it hurting for you so might be best to keep out of their way as much as you can.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(Does Mr Noodles' last post make syntactic sense to UK folx? I'm having visions of people getting jiggy on top of snide remarks.) (Granted this isn't very different from my normal thoughts.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan, "slag off" = criticise in a mean spirited way (was going to say "bitch abpout" but thought that might lead to confusion). So, no.

Having said that I can't see any attacks either, so what would I know?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

As Tim says, 'slag off' is means 'diss', so no, Mr Noodles' sentence makes no sense to me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Noodles made sense to me, and I agree with him. Stick to advice for the unhappy person who is soliciting it, okay?

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The image of a drunken, overwieght Bang Bang Bart Simpson was in my head as I wrote that sentence. Yes, its grammatically incorrect as most of my sentences are. And it all has alot to do with the the topic at hand.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

We all know person K still can't post on these boards so criticise on the behind the back attacks. ?

How does that make syntactic sense?? Or does 'slag off' have another meaning akin to 'lay off'?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

1.
As Tim says, 'slag off' is means 'diss', so no, Mr Noodles' sentence makes no sense to me.
-- N. , June 11th, 2003 10:18 AM.

2.
How does that make syntactic sense?? Or does 'slag off' have another meaning akin to 'lay off'?
-- N. , June 11th, 2003 10:27 AM.

Heard you the first time. I blame the Simpsons.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry - didn't mean to be on your back. I just assumed it was a mistake. It was suzy saying it *did* make sense that threw me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

and I'm not sure where any behind the back slagging was?

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Suzy said:
If you're using him as a boyfriend substitute even though you've both agreed a romance is not on the cards, are you sure you wouldn't have been upset whether the new girlfriend was known to you or not?

This is the one thing I've been asking myself all day. Its a complicated situation really - me and this guy kept being involved with each other, despite his saying he didnt want a relationship. He kept coming back. I was happy with that, and yes in a way it was a boyfriend substitute if I'm honest. I'd like to think Id've been more gracious if it was anyone else but the flatmate, but who can tell.

The saddest part is less that I want to cut ties with him (I care about him enough that I'd put aside my unhappiness and be glad he's happy) but that he doesnt wanna be around me right now. Whether this is because of the situation, or purely he's bored with me, I'm not sure. I think thats what I'm most hurt about, the fact that he's gone to a girlfriend at the expense of our friendship. WHich I'm sure everyone will say means he ain't much of a friend. And you're probably all right. I just don't want to think about that. Friends hurting you is always way worse than boyfriends doing so :(

Tah for all the advice people, very much appreciated. I went out and got a bit drunk and had a very silly night with some friends, and I feel a lot better today (if a tad hung over).

Oh and fwiw no, I am not momus nor am I person K ;)

― Someone, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

We are all person K.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

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