Illuminatus! Trilogy

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What do you think of it? I'm guessing this trilogy was originally released as 3 seperate books and I know Wilson has plenty of material on number coincidences that appear only if you're looking for them in his other books. I am just starting to read this again for the subway entertainment and I noticed that the first mention of the Ishmaelian sect of Islam and the 23 tribes appears on page 22 and the conversation is finished up on page 23. The version of the trilogy I'm holding is one large Dune-size book. I wonder if this mention originally appeared on page 23 in the original series of books (if it was indeed released as three seperate books) and if the whole book is filled with fun intentional coincidence stuff like this I might've missed the first time around.

I love the narrative style of this book. Anyway, I was just wondering what, if anything, others had to say about it. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about the Illuminatus! trilogy here before.

I think Wilson is often misunderstood as either a confused nut or a bringer of truth, but I don't think he's either.

Scaredy Cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i think he's quite funny at first but he only has a few gag routines really

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never been tempted to reread the trilogy or bothered reading a fourth

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i had a friend at college who wz obsessed but he also devoured carlos casteneda and v.v.nearly become a moonie

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark, Illuminatus! was the last thing I read by Wilson. I've never read anything by Robert Shea. Wilson's other books that I've read are not written in this nice narrative style. I just wanted to read Illuminatus! again because I really enjoyed it and it's a little foggy now.

Scaredy cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I read that first Carlos Casteneda book, which I enjoyed. When I was through, I researched the guy online and never felt the need to buy another book. I thought maybe some of the experiences were true descriptions of amazing hallucinations, but it turns out the guy is just a liar.

Scaredy cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

it was three separate books, yes

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh cool. If you have them, would you mind flipping to page 23 in the first one and seeing if that's where the 23 divisions of the Ishmaelian sect of Islam appears?

scaredy, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

er i'm not sure if do any more hang on

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

they must be at my mum and dad's house i guess

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Haven't read these in years but I remember enjoying them very much. An old friend of mine is in his book group in SF, maybe I could ask her if RAW is "a confused nut or a bringer of truth" or neither.

hstencil, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for looking. I just discovered some (in)considerate person put the whole thing up as an E-book. That's pretty illegal, huh? I can't image why you'd want 800+ pages in Ebook format.

Scaredy Cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, do it!

Sc, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i think RAW later got obsessed with his daughter (who had died young, which was sad) and being able to bring her back from being cryogenically frozen (which is like sadder, really)

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

only maybe that was shea?

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I think RAW's daughter did die, maybe. I seem to remember him writing about a terrible string of bad luck in one of his books while he was avidly working on his heart chakra on welfare...

SC, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, hey, hey! I'm glad I got to thinking about this stuff again! My favorite historical book on the Occult ever that's been out of print for at least a decade has just been republished THIS MONTH and is available now at Amazon.com. It used to be titled simply "The Occult" by Colin Wilson, but now it has a goofy subtitle as well. 600 pages, great spooky read. Even has a fun backstory about editors having attacks and things flying off bookshelves during the writing of this book. Dawtum, dodady dawtum.

Scaredy Cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the 'Schrodinger's Cat' trilogy better

dave q, Saturday, 21 June 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The whole RAW/Illuminatus/Conspiracy/"reality is what you make it" thing is something that is very kewl when you're a teenager but loses its charm later in life.

I found Illuminatus! Trilogy to be very dated in a 60s/70s hippy-ish way - I probably would have found it more exciting if I had read it before I read his other stuff. The Schrodingers Cat Trilogy was forgetable (really, I can can't remember what it was about even). His one off book Masks of the Illuminatus is his best book - Albert Einstein and James Joyce work together to solve a mystery invovling secret societies, blah blah, better than it sounds actually. The Historical Illuminatus Trilogy is also good. He also wrote a lot of non-fiction philisophical stuff, but its not as if you can't figure out his philosophy from his novels.

RAW's daughter was killed violently somehow. I know he has a website where you could find out more

fletrejet, Saturday, 21 June 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Barrus to thread and all.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 21 June 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The Illuminatus! trilogy RoXoR. If you ever see the seperate books, they are well worth buying, as the "What Has Happened So Far" summaries at the start of books 2 and 3 are very funny (and not in the combined volume).

I've found other RAW stuff to be essentially just like Illuminatus! only not as fnord good. Perhaps this means that actually Robert Shea was the genius of the partnership, with RAW the subgenius. Actually, his story in "Three Fisted Tales Of Bob" is v. funny, being a piece of Lovecraftian pastiche set in Dublin and containing references to the Sir Myles Na Gopaleen Philosophical Press and also the dread work of Cthulhoid lore, "Coras Iompair Eireann".

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 21 June 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

As a young lad I went to a local jumble sale. I found Part 3 of Illuminatus! there and bought it. It turned my world upside down. Months later I went to a new jumble sale in that same place. I found Part 2 there. But Part 1 never turned up. So years after that I bought the combined thing when it came out.

I loved it then and I love parts of it now. I love the way they incorporate HP Lovecraft into it.

N. Ron, Saturday, 21 June 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I've got one of his books somewhere, a friend loaned it to me before leaving town and never came back to pick it up. I'm bored stiff by most of that conspiracy crap nowadays but at least Wilson has a sense of humor, unlike - uh, all the rest. I do remember thinking he was a better writer than I thought he'd be.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 22 June 2003 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I was sold on the books by a friend mentioning that in them a guy fucks an apple.

DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

it's only a picture

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

what, he fucks a picture of an apple? why?

joni, Sunday, 22 June 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

it was the 60s

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 22 June 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

didnt they have melons back then?

joni, Sunday, 22 June 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

only pictures

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 22 June 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

R.A.W.'s daughter was beaten to death while she was working after school at a grocery store. Also, in the book Cosmic Trigger, R.A.W. mentions that she was sometimes harassed and beaten on her way home from school by some people, which inspired to her stop what she called the "wheel of pain" and forgive them. Or something like that. It's been awhile since I read it.

me, Sunday, 22 June 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually liked his nonfiction stuff quite a bit. A book I read recently that reminded me of RAW was "My Life With The Spirits" by Lon Milo DuQuette. Interestingly, I just looked to see of DuQuette has a website, found it, and there is a quote from RAWilson on it:
"I consider this the best all-around introduction to Western Occultism -- sane, sensible, down-to-earth and wonderfully witty."
I love to read about the occult. Even if it's 100% bullshit, it beats any book about the occult that reads "Fiction" on the spine. I like the whole "this is real" quality, regardless of whether it is or not.

Scaredy cat (Natola), Sunday, 22 June 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I've not read it - bought it at some point in my impressionable youth and it's gathered dust ever since. One of those things, like Ayn Rand's books, that I think I should read at some point, but never quite develop the motivation to actually do so.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 23 June 2003 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I read the Illuminatus! Trilogy when I was 12, and obv it was like a little explosion going off in my head. Later on read the Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy and it was also pretty good (although it took a while to get started). But then when I was in my late teen years I tried reading them again and it just seemed stale and flat. It's all something of a shaggy dog joke anyways...

Chris P (Chris P), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Dead Kennedys stole their name from Schroedingers Cat, the KLF stole their name Justified Ancients Of Mummu from Illuminatus, including their cry of "Get down on the floor and stay calm". Good stuff. And how can you not feel excited by list after list of bandnames, all of them made up???

N. Ron, Monday, 23 June 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I could have sworn I posted about Illuminatus! somewhere else here, but since Ned invoked me...

I've read it a couple times over the years, and it's fnord charmingly a product of its times. A stew of paranoid para-politics, historical cross referencing, and R.A.W.'s obsession with Joyce. Sorta like the hippie version of James Burke's Connections series.

The little explosions went off in my head too when I first read it. I had this feeling that there was some sort of secret message buried in the text, but later I just figured that's probably what Wilson/Shea wanted you to believe. Still enjoy reading it.

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

but NRon the made-up bandnames are ALL TERRIBLE!! (i forgot abt that, that's why i went off those books)

illuminatus! => klf is like zappa => simpsons, as in KUDOS WON'T FLOW UPHILL NOHOW

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Can anyone explain Mark's final 'sentence' there for me?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

at a guess: that illuminatus! influenced (koff) the klf does not make mark any better disposed to it, in much the same way that the fact that zappa influenced the simpsons does not make mark any better disposed towards zappa.

at a guess.

thom west (thom w), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

thom = otm + h (anag)

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Bought it. Read through part one. Realized I had no fucking clue about anything that had happened anywhere during that first book. Put it down, thinking I'd come back to it. Never did.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

What Sean said.

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

the bit at the end with the Nazi Zombies attacking a rock festival is G*R*A*T*E.

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, I thought he was saying that Illuminatis implied that the KLF were like Frank Zappa, which in turn implied the Simpsons. That didn't make much sense, though I dare say Mark could argue it if he so desired.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

six months pass...
I have just finished reading the first part of the Illuminatus trilogy and throughly enjoyed it, I myself have the three books seperatly although the first one is of an earleir print that the others. Could anyone enlighten me as to what a FNord actually is,I think it may be the hidden communications of the Illuminati within newspapers, am I at all right?

John Dillenger, Monday, 5 January 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Fnord is a vacume... but also at the same time it is .....

Fnord?

Fnord is evaporated herbal tea without the herbs.

Fnord is that funny feeling you get when you reach for the
Snickers bar and come back holding a slurpee.

Fnord is the 43 1/3rd state, next to Wyoming.
Fnord is this really, really tall mountain.
Fnord is the reason boxes of condoms carry twelve instead of ten.

Fnord is the blue stripes in the road that never get painted.
Fnord is place where those socks vanish off to in the laundry.
Fnord is an arcade game like Pacman without the little dots.
Fnord is a little pufflike cloud you see at 5pm.

Fnord is the tool the dentist uses on unruly patients.
Fnord is the blank paper that cassette labels are printed on.
Fnord is where the buses hide at night.
Fnord is the empty pages at the end of the book.

Fnord is the screw that falls from the car for no reason.
Fnord is why Burger King uses paper instead of foam.
Fnord is the little green pebble in your shoe.
Fnord is the orange print in the yellow pages.


Fnord is a pickle without the bumps.
Fnord is why ducks eat trees.
Fnord is toast without bread.
Fnord is a venetian blind without the slats.

Fnord is the lint in the navel of the mites that eat
the lint in the navel of the mites that eat
the lint in Fnord's navel.

Fnord is an apostrophe on drugs.
Fnord is the bucket where they keep the unused serifs for H*lvetica.
Fnord is the gunk that sticks to the inside of your car's fenders.
Fnord is the source of all the zero bits in your computer.

Fnord is the echo of silence.
Fnord is the parsley on the plate of life.
Fnord is the sales tax on happiness.
Fnord is the preposition at the end of sixpence.

Fnord is the feeling in your brain when you hold your breath too long.
Fnord is the reason latent homosexuals stay latent.

Fnord is the donut hole.
Fnord is the whole donut.

Fnord is an annoying series of email messages.
Fnord is the color only blind people can see.

Fnord is the serial number on a box of cereal.

Fnord is the Universe with decreasing entropy.
Fnord is a naked woman with herpes simplex 428.
Fnord is the yin without yang.
Fnord is a pyrotumescent retrograde onyx obelisk.

Fnord is why lisp has so many parentheses.
Fnord is the the four-leaf clover with a missing leaf.

Fnord is double-jointed and has a cubic spline.
Fnord never sleeps.
Fnord is the "een" in baleen whale.

Fnord is neither a particle nor a wave.
Fnord is the space in between the pixels on your screen.

Fnord is the guy that writes the Infiniti ads.
Fnord is the nut in peanut butter and jelly.
Fnord is an antebellum flagellum fella.

Fnord is a sentient vacuum cleaner.

Fnord is the smallest number greater than zero.
Fnord lives in the empty space above a decimal point.


Fnord is the odd-colored scale on a dragon's back.
Fnord is the redundant coin slot on arcade games.
Fnord was last seen in Omaha, Nebraska.

Fnord is the founding father of the phrase "founding father".
Fnord is the last bit of sand you can't get out of your shoe.
Fnord is Jesus's speech advisor.
Fnord keeps a spare eyebrow in his pocket.
Fnord invented the green hubcap.
Fnord is why doctors ask you to cough.

Fnord is the "ooo" in varooom of race cars.
Fnord uses two bathtubs at once.

Gauge StraenJ, Wednesday, 7 January 2004 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha, I was going to post this AGAIN:

the bit at the end with the Nazi Zombies attacking a rock festival is G*R*A*T*E.

Don Lucknowe to thread!

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...
3x3x3

9, Monday, 22 March 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Illuminati play a feature role in the book ANgels & Demons By dan brown

Annabelle (bella1618), Thursday, 25 March 2004 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

What's the link between Zappa and the Simpsons??

Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

groening is a big zappa fan

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...
Illuminati play a feature role in the book ANgels & Demons By dan brown

But surely in a rubbish way? I bet there are no relations with Apples involved.

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

Justified AND ancient!

Ian Riese-Moraine. Exposing ambitious careerists as charlatans since 1986. (East, Thursday, 9 June 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

i read about 1/3 of this in high school and got irritated with all of this crap. but for some reason I was overwhelmed with the desire to actually read the whole thing today, I don't know why, reading up on it fills me with a kind of nauseous, irritated feeling. it's a quick slide from this into burning man territory or star trek conventions.

akm, Monday, 14 April 2008 21:41 (seventeen years ago)

Robert Anton Wilson's intro to Sex and Rockets was highly, highly enjoyable. The rest of his stuff is basically unreadable.

Abbott, Monday, 14 April 2008 21:46 (seventeen years ago)

not true

latebloomer, Monday, 14 April 2008 21:47 (seventeen years ago)

tip: stick to the "non fiction" at first

sexyDancer, Monday, 14 April 2008 21:48 (seventeen years ago)

Devoured it in three or four days on a very boring family holiday when I was seventeen. It lead to some extremely strange dreams and I've not read it since. I wonder if it would still be good.

chap, Monday, 14 April 2008 22:50 (seventeen years ago)

I'll narrow my statement: it's unreadable in the breakroom of a Kinko's.

Abbott, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:03 (seventeen years ago)

I more or less still go by what I said upthread, but folks might be more interested in the Kerry Thornley biography instead. Reading about the people who wrote the gobbledy-goop is often more rewarding than their own writings.

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:24 (seventeen years ago)


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