this is a thread about one of the greatest achievements of our time: AIR CONDITIONING

I could not live without air conditioning, especially during May - September. There is no way you can force me to go without, no matter what you construct the house with. Air conditioning is like food to me, i.e. an absolute necessity. And I set mine at 72 degrees because I like it that way.

I lurve a/c.

I'm no Luddite on this. I run the a/c all summer long. But it has inevitably had an insular effect. Air conditioning and suburbia go hand in hand. (One solution I like is the outdoor misting spray systems I saw on patios in Arizona -- keeps people cool and still allows them to be outside. Of course, the problem with that is that it uses a lot of water that Arizona doesn't really have in the first place...)

Still drive through poor 'hoods and everyone's hanging outside in the summertime evenings. Give any of these suckers the chance at central air however. . .

A/C as only possible remedy for heat = dud beyond dud, wedded forever in my mind to the types of people who forward those annoying "You're blessed today if you enjoyed any of the following things..." types of emails. A/C as respite from humidity obv. classic. But if there's one area (and there may only be this one) in which I'd preach the virtues of moderation, it'd be with regard to air conditioning, which out here anyway is emblematic of how my adopted countrymen consider nature their sworn enemy.

*ice crystals form around fingertips*

yeah, those all stupid poor people who live in the projects, what do they know? if they moved into yr fabulous arizona house they wouldn't complain so fucking much.

If there were no AC, then you or I probably wouldn't be living in the South in the first place. The population of the South was tiny until the invention of the AC caused a huge migration southward. AC in your house + AC in your car = 99% time spent in artificial enviroments. AC is a huge energy drain, and will be one of the first things to be sacrificed in the coming energy shortages.

This is what I hate most about it! When I have shows or a tour coming up, I really really can't afford to get sick, and I'll go to work and there's this rank freonified air blowing out of vents that haven't been cleaned since they were installed through filters that needed replaced back during the Ford administration, and it's just the PERFECT environment for mold growth, etc., and I sit there goin' "Please God don't let me get sick, what could be worse than 1) getting on an airplane while sick 2) touring while sick."

Like I say, moderation - we finally broke down and bought a window unit for our bedroom, which we turn on an hour or so before bed. But the whole every-home-should-be-a-convalescent-hospital mode of A/C, brr, it gives me the hard creeps.

However look back at botn tenemant and other house design in hot countries going back through the ages and you willsee that it is possible to do without A/C and still keep the house cool. (Big thick walls, shutters on windows, central courtyards, largely in shade, all features of ancient roman tennemant design and used in southern europe till the rise of A/C, I guess in the 80s).

Having lived through a hot italian summer. I can testify to the fact that it is possible to keep a flat cool (20?C in a 40?C heat) with no A/C and a rotation of shutters.

A/C is hugely wastefull and widescale use of A/C goes to contribute to a hotter exterior ambient tempurature in cities (not to mention all the greenhouse gasses produced in powering the things).

Now add to this the devlopments in the past 10 years or so in passive ventilation, smart glass, building control systems, insultation, building materials etc. you can design buildings with a very small need for heating and cooling.

As for energy saving setting that should be an un alterable stautory setting.

Don't even get me started on open fridge freezers in supermarkets or how the heat from this wastefull machines is not ducted away.

Here in New Orleans, the emblem of nature as my countrymen's sworn enemy is hurricanes and stifling heat!! Nature = DUD.

My building has a central courtyard and my apartment (which faces the courtyard) still gets unbearably humid in summer. There's also very little natural light coming in here -- you'd think that would help keep things cool, but no.

Yeah see that's where we disagree.

As far as summer-smart building design and the like -- sure, some designs work better for some climates than others. Drive through New Orleans: most of the buildings that are older than a few decades were made to try to maximize coolness. Big open shutters at opposite ends of the house, to get a breeze going through. Shotgun houses with narrow alleys between them, so the wind is forced through faster and carries warmth with it. Little use of upper stories except as places where excess heat is funnelled. They're sometimes just shy of brilliant. They're as picturesque as they are picaresque. They're quaint. They're often beautiful.

And they suck.

No one wants them. I could make a down payment on one by selling my four year old computer. They're hot as fuck -- cooler than standing out in the sun or a chicken coop, sure, but "slightly less hot than tons of fuck" is still "hot as fuck." They're humid, so much so that the walls sweat and the paint peels long before its time. They're crawling with cockroaches and may flies. The gaps between the walls and the plaster are home to mold which kills you if you breathe in too many of its spores. The refrigerators sweat and the cabinets become mildewy.

There is a limit to how much you can do with a given set of resources. Some climates are more easily tamed than others.

A/C is the easy lazyu way of taming climates. it take ingenuity to do it properly.

Again I'm not saying "Abolish air conditioning!" I'm just saying when I go into a house in the summer and it's COLD in there, I start making shit up about how I got an appointment to be somewhere real quick-like.

Heat rises as part of your building design you build in in your foundations vents that suck air down to the bottom level. Air is drawn up through the basements, duck so it passses as muched exposed concrete as possible. If the temp of the air in the basments is below the dew point (quite possible) Water will condense out drying the air. The draft is suppllied by the hotter levels of the building and chimenys on the roof, constructed of thin black metal. Drawing air through the building. Ventilation can be improove by lacing your inlet in the prevailing wind direction. Water can be used to precool the air on entry or in the basement sections.

res ipsa loquitur - this is clearly the best way to get your building's core temperature down to frosty Nordic levels

All's fair -- the city would be long since gone if the Army Corps of Engineers weren't redirecting the Mississippi River, so it's all bonus time at this point anyway.

I can see how living without AC is possible -- perhaps even preferable -- in many parts of the world. Again with the Chicago weather: 81 degrees today. Not bad at all. I could even sleep at that temperature.

But down here, AC prevents needless death. It's very hot. And sex is impossible without AC down here... who wants to touch someone else when you sweat 24 hours a day and feel sticky and gross all the time?

But at home? Half the windows in my house don't even open anymore. And say all you want about "smart building," but it's not possible to create a comfortable, permanent structure in North Texas year-round that's affordable to the average person. Too much humidity to go with the heat.

I'm still nursing my desire to live somewhere that stays 35-75 all year round. I have no idea where that is. Vancouver?

People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

I should probably stop ruining this thread, but I'll only reiterate that yeah, I do the A/C thing too, I don't mean to strongly criticize what is pretty much totally normal in our culture. Sometimes the cognitive dissonance that is apparently necessary to live functionally in our society overwhelms me and I react by pretending that I know what's going on

'if you are able-bodied' is key though - buses are the only form of transt for millions of old/disabled people in this country

I kind of thought of the arguments against A/C to apply very generally, and not take into account stuff like disabilities that might make A/C necessary for life (or at least good health), so I was applying the same to the notion that buses could arguably be luxuries.

Z S, you're not ruining anything. Your criticisms are well stated and not unilateral.

if my apt was 83° i wld never sleep, ever, from sweating all the time

my bf always wants to turn off the a/c & im like, dear god, no. i justify its wastefulness w/ the fact that i walk or bike everywhere & let the apt stay really cold all winter & barely use power for anything else

I dunno I think a lot of it is just what people are used to?

I agree that we're spoiled by cheap energy, however, my budget would have to change to pay for A/C. I mean, it does already, but if electricity doubled in price, other things would get cut before A/C (eating out, Netflix, name-brand groceries).

As I said upthread, I barely use heat in the winter. This worked out nicely in my previous place b/c the landlady was super stingy with the radiators, so it rarely reached even 65 inside and I never complained.

i grew up in new england and then canada so, yeah, i am not great w/ heat. although tbqf toronto summers are way more brutal than sf ime

its mostly just funny or not funny but s.thing bcuz i feel guilty abt how much ive been running the a/c this summer but it makes such a difference to my qol that i could probably justify murdering every polar bear currently alive, with my own hands, if it became necessary, tp preserve a 70° apt

seriously

I'm trying to backtrack and pretend I'm the other side of the argument that says blast the A/C, if you got it, flaunt it. And while I kind of viscerally disagree with that, I also see tons of holes in my own perspective. Because really, I guess my view boils down to the fact that I wouldn't be comfortable living in my apartment with A/C in July if I happened to live next door to a dude in Pakistan that was sweating his balls off. And if I lived in a hypothetical, representational neighborhood where it was like me and 19 other people with A/C and then 80 others who went without, I'd feel super awkward around them. And I definitely would not feel comfortable talking to my A/C-less neighbor and complaining about how hot it was and how the A/C can't seem to get the temp below 76, no matter how long I kept it on. It's like talking to someone without a job and complaining about how the raise you received wasn't as big as what you deserved.

But really, all of that just boils down to "We're living a lifestyle that is exceedingly luxurious compared to the rest of the world, and I feel guilty because I did absolutely nothing to deserve it." Which unfortunately isn't really a winning argument, it convinces no one to change anything. And of course, you can make the same argument about loads of other luxuries that we feel entitled to enjoy.

the whole thing - modern life - is absurd.

I grew up in coastal california in a city that doesn't use a lot of a/c and I never really even thought about the concept outside of like...malls/grocery stores.

anyway my opinion remains the same - everyone is spoiled - but this thread has probably made me think I should just let my gf win the 83+a/c argument (she already did of course) cause I guess she's the average person and I'm the weird one.

We are accustomed to a lifestyle that is far more comfortable than so many other people, and we take it as a given that this is what we deserve - A/C, cheap food, free time, cheap gas (in the U.S., anyway). As with anything, it's a matter of how close you are to seeing something different - if I moved to Mexico City, I think I would really struggle with owning two cats that get fed daily, get treats, toys, and regular medical care, when there are tons of people living in shanty towns who don't get any of that. And I cringe to think what kind of animal suffering, pollution, and waste go into making cat food.

Basically, we do owe other humans and the earth something, and I think reasonable and good people recognize that and make efforts to be helpful, but we will never individually meet our due, however hard we try, and guilt is not helping anyone.

I need to stop posting and give in to the Ambien b/c I think I'm heading into some kind of stoner talk.

I dunno the guilt does help on some level, people who feel guilty are probably willing to support attempts to fix these problems - even if it requires them to pay more $ / change their lifestyle in some ways.

obv that theoretical mechanism of change still needs to appear, but at least the guilty parties aren't gonna be pushing against it

old people don't need to be going places. unless it's to the bank to get a crisp $5 bill to put in my birthday card, i guess. maybe restock their supply of hard candy, fine.

been stayin in a house in bmore (94 degrees right now at 1:20 am, been much worse tho) and turnin into the most pro AC dude ever

go AC

which this house does not have

Seems to me that pro/con has as much to do with the humidity of your local climate as with the heat... like, I don't care how HOT it gets in scenic Italy or the mecca of adobe huts or SoCal - - - you would DIE if you moved to Atlanta even if you knocked ten degrees off the temperature. It's just a swamp, and yes, everything gets moldy and mildewy and gross so if you think you get sick from being in a place that's too air conditioned you should move into some of the rattletrap old houses I've been in in Georgia.

Mind you, I have a great fondness for those rattletraps, and I'm sympathetic to J0hnD's position, esp. after living in India for a little while and discovering how unbelievably fucking insanely cold the movie theaters are. Basically the few places there that have A/C just bombard you with it, and it takes its toll. But yeah, I have some education as an architect and I'm a little skeptical of the "if the building were just designed right it would feel just as comfortable" - - - this is totally true in hot-and-dry climates but totally NOT true in hot-and-wet ones.

a/c basically unknown in residential london. no need for it :(

the a/c on the new london overground trains is pretty brutal

oof yes

at work i need to have a sweater at my desk, which is just stupid

oh man i disagree. travelling on the east london line a few weeks ago was a treat, even when it got stuck in some east london crapwater for twenty minutes.

i am kind of amazed that ppl 7 years ago knew what was up. because no matter where you are and when, AC = miracle.

But unless something totally unexpected occurs (massive new fossil fuel reserves are discovered + global warming really is a massive global conspiracy with 10,000s of climate scientists in cahoots, or clean energy ramps up way faster than expected + the Senate passes strong climate/energy legislation looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-*FOREHEADSLAP*), the idea of someone saying 83 F is unbearable without AC is going to be hilarious in the near future.

Air conditioning is going to be the least of our worries when we get to this point. And the thing is, there are so many modern conveniences in Western countries (and particularly the US) that deserve demonization as much if not more than air conditioning. I mean, entire cities (LA, Las Vegas) are built on deserts without enough water to sustain them and only thanks to modern engineering miracles that waste untold resources can people live in those areas and have lawns. LAWNS. Grass in the desert. What purpose does that serve? AC at least improves quality of life and in some climates and for some people, allows people to function, but actual grass as opposed to xeriscaped yards? What the hell is that all about?

And here's the thing that always chaps my ass about the emphasis in this society on the responsibility of the individual to save the planet, etc.: it is impossible for an individual acting alone or even groups of individuals acting collectively to effect change that matters in any way without some level of institutional support and change. And these groups of individuals can protest and take part in movements and lobby and sometimes nudge these institutions in one direction or another, or consumer patterns might encourage paper towel companies to put a li'l bit of recycled content in their products (and slap a big old green label on the packaging), but without serious sweeping, institutional level change, "Ten Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Planet" is only so much guilt-alleviating wankery. Guilt-alleviating wankery in which I habitually participate, mind you (like ZS said, it takes a fuckload of cognitive dissonance to exist in this wacky modern world), but I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm a superior Green Being, because the actual difference I'm making in light of the harm that is happening on a major global scale is practically non-existant. And frankly, when we're talking about capitalist institutions specifically, any time there is a conflict between profits and anything else, profits will win. If it costs too much money to make a change that supports sustainability, it is just not going to happen.

What I mean is that my foregoing air conditioning because a fellow in Pakistan doesn't have any is meaningless. It just means we're both going to be hot. The only solution is an honest to god, global equitable re-distrubtion of resources and that's going to require a complete overhaul in human behavior and thinking AND world leaders who are not power-mad egotists with an "I got mine, fuck you" (whether that "you" is their own constituents or the residents of other countries) mentality and maybe that will happen some day, but it's not going to happen because I turn off my window unit and spend my nights lying in a puddle of my own sweat, wishing for a swift and mercifully cool death.

(For a hilaritragic example of what I mean by the pointlessness of individual action when unsupported by institutional change (or when actively stymied by institutional inertia), see this article about Chicago and recycling: http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-recycling-blue-carts-service/Content?oid=2135422.)

it is hard to believe that Las Vegas - both the strip and the metro area - would exist in its current form without a/c

LA prolly would, even when it's hot there it's better than most of the country

Jenny I agree with almost all of your post but I don't think it's incompatible with the notion of maybe keeping the A/C set at a more reasonable level in your own home

sorry, that sounds more accusatory than I meant it to be. I just feel that adapting to existing in hotter temps is not... so hard*. I dunno, I feel this probably varies from person to person.

*obviously if your inside temp is 95 or above like poor bear up there it's not doable.

No, I agree. Keeping the AC so low that you need a sweater in July, for example, is absurd. I might run the AC when it's 83 out - depends on the humidity and whether that's a high or low. If it's 83 at 10 am or after dusk, hell yeah. If it tops out at 83 at 1 pm, prob not.

I like sleeping with just a sheet, the idea that I would actively make this more difficult to achieve boggles my mind

I guess here's how I break it down to an extent, and I don't really involve dudes from pakistan in my calculations (although they are there in the back of my mind) - I just figure, in terms of the appliances that I use the most, aircon units rank pretty high up there in terms of energy used. way up there. like a window mount can use 600-1000 watts depending on how big it is. my macbook has an 80W power adapter, TVs can go from under 50 to a couple hundred watts etc.

so I try to cut down on the A/C because it's a big power draw, and I don't think it's a big deal to wear less clothing or to cope. right now in the living room it's 78 and to me that's really comfortable, in my room it probably reaches 82-83 and I've learned not to mind.

And that's very well to make changes in your life as you see fit, but my beef was with whoever it was above it was who called A/C "decadent" and those chided those who use it.

without serious sweeping, institutional level change, "Ten Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Planet" is only so much guilt-alleviating wankery.

I would add that displays of guilt and spreading of guilt are often wankery as well because it seems to me that a lot of times, that guilt makes people feel like they are accomplishing something.

desperation and outrage lead to guilt which might lead to inconsequential individual changes, which alleviate the guilt.

A thermostat is made to control the temperature of an area in a way that is far more granular than the poles of FUCKING HOT and FREEZING COLD. My boss does not fucking get this. So when she feels that it's getting a little chilly (i.e. for her, 72 degrees), she turns the thermostat to 79 or??? she turns the A/C off completely. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Why not:

1. choose the various options that exist between 72 and 79? Or 72 and OFF??
2. close the vent in her office?

You know the answers to these questions. Which is not to say that you shouldn't come here to complain. You should.

It's just that I got back from running errands outside in the miserable heat and I was looking forward to a nice cool office, and I come in and it's fucking 80 degrees in here. I was a little short with her (very unlike me) when I said "Well, everyone else is burning up."

Also? What bugs me? When the other people in the office come to me and say, "Jesse, why is it so hot in here?"

Tell them to go ask Suzie Hotflash.

LOL

hahahaaasksjdf

I'm pretty sure she's done with that period of her life.

Holy kraut, the difference between my power use this past August (a very, very hot month) v. November and December is astounding: 501 kWh versus 150-167 kWh ($76 v.+- $30).

What's a good power of ac to comfortably cool a midsize studio apartment? I don't
know the square feet but it's one large-ish long room plus attached kitchen thru an open archway.
I currently have in a 5,000 btu unit and it's not doing much but I fear escalating my electricity. My unit
has been on 60 degrees and high for the past 3 hours and the only positive effect is that I am not sweating.

My apartment is about 450 square feet and I'm pretty sure the one I got was a 12K BTU, and it does the job. I googled suggestions for BTUs per square footage and they were helpful.

I finally gave in and popped my A/C in the day before yesterday when it got above 80º and humid and I knew sleep would be impossible.

The thermostat for our central AC is having some kind of schizophrenic break and thinks the temperature inside our house is in the upper 90s - low 100s. It's actually in the upper 70s, but trying telling that to the thermostat. So the air runs constantly unless I turn it off altogether.

Supposedly a new thermostat gets delivered today and supposedly I'm going to install it. I was viewing this DIY chore with great trepidation until my wife reminded me that I replaced one at our old house about 20 years ago. The positive side of senility! Whatever man has done, etc.

are you getting a Nest Learning Thermostat