Suspected WMD source 'missing'

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The guardian reports that the man who was accussed of being Andrew Gilligan's Source for the allegations that Ali Cambell embelished the dosssier on WMD in Iraq has cgone missing.

Has Ali Cambell ensured that the source sleeps with the fishes.

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 July 2003 07:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I think more to the point, has said source shat himself, realised his career is fux0red and buggered off?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Without telling his family?

BBC

Ed (dali), Friday, 18 July 2003 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I hope it's not the case but if there's any question of suicide here Blair/Campbell are also shitting themselves. If this guy can be shown to be acting from respectable motives and is driven to suicide the torrent of public contempt for B/C will become unmanageable. They will have to take 100% responsibility for their narcissistic inflation of this non-story into several weeks of headline news, and the remorseless bullying of an institution that the public rightly believes has infinitely more integrity than this contemptible government. If the end result is the suicide of a public servant I think they would be finished and deservedly so.

ArfArf, Friday, 18 July 2003 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

See also this article about how the Bush administration may have blown one of their agents' cover for giving a report they didn't like.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 18 July 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear they can ride out the odd suicide.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I do wonder why Alistair Campbell didn't let the original Radio 4 bulletin slip out of sight and be swiftly forgotten rather than blowing it up to the extent he did, thus creating bad news for the government vastly exceeding that generated from a news piece hardly anyone probably listened to. Incompetence of the highest order, surely?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, that's what I've been wondering.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

A body's been found.

sb, Friday, 18 July 2003 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think they can, N. Blair's popularity is sliding as it is and it won't have been helped by those scenes from congress. If it turns out this guy has topped himself while Blair was indulging in a mass mutual masturbation session with the US legislature it's going to look very bad indeed.

RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't believe blair-campbell's anger at being disbelieved is faked: that's to say, i suspect that, via their real actual mole, the bbc's report miscued the facts a little bit, in one (as yet unknown) regard, which allowed the govt to release themselves to maximum pompous diversionary strop on about ACCURACY and BAD JOURNALISM blah blah

the reason i don;t think it's faked is bcz that wd require the kind of cool, calculated plotting which would recognise the risks in herent in the strategy (if they knew for certain they had done EXACTLY what they were accused of, they would have front centre of their minds the worry abt WHAT IF WE'RE FOUND OUT? OUR ANGER ONLY RIVETS ATTENTION PLUS HUGELY RAISES THE STAKES)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe you're right Ricky. I don't even know what I want to happen. Change of leadership, I suppose.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet Blair wishes he could run for US President. They lapped him up!

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Body found near his house!

chris (chris), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

This is seriously fucked up... I mean, missing experts, forged papers, evil presidents, possible government mole found dead. It makes 24 look like a piece of dull unsensationalist documentary footage.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

This is all starting to sound like an episode of the Avengers. When does Emma Peel show up and start kicking some ass?

kate (kate), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks to Kate I now know what I want to happen.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Keep us yanks appraised of what you hear on broadcast media...my AP wire here doesn't have the info, shockingly enough!

teeny (teeny), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Emma Peel = Claire Short.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

teeny - it's all on news.bbc.co.uk

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for the mental image of Claire Short in a leather catsuit. I will now go and wash my brain out with soap.

kate (kate), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks nick, but sometimes the broadcast media get out the info ages before the websites...that's what I was specifically asking. Y'know, if it makes you feel better to slack from work if you knew you'd be helping an american broadcaster. :)

teeny (teeny), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i have the original AIFF files that prove the WMD document was faked on a chip that i've sewed into my chest.

Alan (Alan), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry teeny - I wasn't thinking. You're right.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

when this first blew up, the tories wheeled out alan duncan as their attack dog for newsnight: eg former militant thatcherista, free market libertarian, out gay, quick and clever

his line was curious: he was grumpy and not very articulate, and basically taking the line that campbell had gone solo loco and was harming his boss who "we all" wished well, and that this kind of behaviour — eg campbell's tantrum — was resignation stuff

blair and bush have both enacted policy in a way that has stirred up the established political and government classes and orgs AGAINST ONE ANOTHER: they have made many of the agencies they depend on so angry with them that moles and whistleblowers are pouring out of the woodwork — how many fronts does blair think he can fight on? he keeps opening new ones!!

on the one hand, neo-imperialism blah blah: on the other, a sustained (unthinking?) assault by the administration in question on all the existing structures that can enable and sustain empires?

mark s (mark s), Friday, 18 July 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

this WMD source will be found. Or at least proof that he existed.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 18 July 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark I'm not sure I agree the anger wasn't faked to some extent. I'm sure Blair did have a genuine (not = reasonable) sense of grievance about some of the war coverage. But equally I suspect that Campbell saw a chink in the BBC's armour and went for the jugular without thinking through the consequences.

It was crass misjudgement about how the public thinks. The public don't give a toss whether the dossier was "sexed up". Partial presentation of the facts is exactly the behaviour they expect from politicians.

Hounding the BBC is another matter. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the specific accusation, most of the electorate will believe that the BBC was trying its best to do an honest job in difficult circumstances. How do you report impartially on a war which even members of the government believe is being fought for different reasons than the ones given by the Prime Minister? Even if the BBC got it wrong in this narrow and particular instance, most people will believe its worst offence was to imply that a habitual liar might be lying. It was public relations own goal by the government right from the start, and they compounded it by hounding a particular journalist and a scientist who by all accounts was a decent, limelight-shunning professional, and who now appears to have committed suicide as a result.

None of this needed to have implications for the re-election of the government. It was always about Blair and Campbell's personal vanity. I doubt Blair recover from this. Claire Short's demand for a quick succession struck me as ludicrously out of touch with reality just a couple of weeks ago. Now it looks like the only option if the government is to survive in a condition fit to govern. If Blair is about anything more than personal ambition he will resign now.

ArfArf, Friday, 18 July 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I doubt Blair recover from this. Claire Short's demand for a quick succession struck me as ludicrously out of touch with reality just a couple of weeks ago. Now it looks like the only option if the government is to survive in a condition fit to govern. If Blair is about anything more than personal ambition he will resign now.

The problem with this is that, if my suspicions are correct (and they are if his 'history' speech is anything to go by), Blair genuinely doesn't believe he has done anything wrong.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

real anger but bogus pretext is what i'm getting at: as in, "the one time we DIDN'T sex up the document the bbc goes for us, this time we've got them on toast grrr argh "

mainly i don't buy that this wz ENTIRELY calculated bcz it exactly does a lot of stuff they have always so very calculatedly avoided (such as AC putting himself in the limelight...)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 18 July 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark in that case we agree. Matt I suspect Blair is congenitally incapable of thinking he's in the wrong, but he might just be capable of seeing that his continued leadership is the Tories' best hope and doing the decent thing. I'm not optimistic, though.

ArfArf, Friday, 18 July 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but his continued leadership is also his best hope.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 18 July 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

It's him

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Blair "not Potty" says official spokesman

The Prime Minister's official spokesman says Tony Blair has not gone "potty".

The denial comes after Mr Blair was described as a "psychopath" in New Statesman magazine.

His spokesman describes it as a "very strange term to use" given the Prime Minister's record.

He added: "You have got to look at what the Prime Minister has achieved in the past six months in terms of handling major international issues like Iraq, in pursuing the goal of progress in the Middle East settlement, in pursuing public service delivery at home.

"I think you will see a Prime Minister who has a very clear sense of direction, who understands fully the difficult issues and the difficult decisions this country is faced with, who understands the need to maintain progress and to work through the process of investment and reform which the Government is.

"Therefore, the term 'potty', I think, is, if I may say so, potty."
Psychologists and psychiatrists were invited to give their views of Mr Blair in the magazine.

It stated: "One view emerged strongly: there appears to be something worryingly adrift in the mind of Anthony Charles Lynton Blair, a man who doesn't really know who or what he is.

"More technically, he is diagnosed as a psychopath capable of reinventing himself with remarkable dexterity, like an actor.

"What most people call 'spin', the routine lubricant of all political gearboxes, is, in Blair's case, eloquent self-delusion on a heroic scale."

Phew! That's a relief, then!

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 July 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

is there another thread about this david kelly thing?
the news coverage here was weird,it sounded like he had been killed
was i completely getting the wrong end of the stick?

robin (robin), Friday, 18 July 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

No other thread. Who knows what happened?

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

did i just completely imagine that the implication was that he had been killed though?

robin (robin), Friday, 18 July 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't seen anything that made the cause of death remotely clear so far. The only thing I am sure of is that somewhere, someone is already working on a new conspiracy thriller.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 18 July 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

this has all only just sunk in for me - fucking hell!

stevem (blueski), Friday, 18 July 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

If anything, the whole case reinforces what mark s has been saying for years - that GF1 is the true puppet master.

Here's the scene the night before last. Note how his self-consciously 'relaxed' stance utterly fails to mask the inner turmoil, in contrast to her easy self-asssurance.

http://rarara.v21hosting.co.uk/photos/kellymastermind.jpg

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 July 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

As I mentioned earlier, this story didn't make it onto the AP wire I use at work until 1-2 hours after this thread was started (v. unusual; they're usually as on top of things as possible). For what it's worth, here in the states, the ABC national news led with Kobe Bryant being charged, then went to Iraq news, saying that the latest audiotape of Saddam was declared by the CIA to probably be authentic, then saying that the administration had released information that there was 'compelling evidence' that Hussein tried to build nuclear weapons. Then they brought up the Kelly story, six minutes into the half-hour broadcast.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 18 July 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck, whatever the hell happened, it makes me so sad to see the footage of this man alive and now he's dead.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 18 July 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

www.dailyrecord.co.uk says it was suicide. When asked if it was by gunshot the police would only say Dr Kelly didnt have a firearms license.
Even if its a heart attack the government will surely be blamed for the pressure he wa sunder, although i notice some labour mps are blaming the BBC and so is Dr kelly's MP(who is a tory).

I think the murdered conspiracy theories are completely unthinkable.
Worst case scenario for the government i'd imagine would be suicide(because i really cant see it being a murder case)

Ronaldo, Saturday, 19 July 2003 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Holy mackerel.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 19 July 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, this has predictably been another excuse for vested interests to bash the Beeb. It's an easy target because it has so few powerful defenders. The government and politicians generally hate it for subjecting them to scrutiny. Big business and the rest of the media want rid of an anachronistic reminder that non-capitalist solutions can work. And of course they want to increase market share. It's hamstrung in defending itself by it's obligation to be "impartial" in its broadcasts, even between two points of view where one is reasonable and the other patently absurd or mendacious. I see more and more signs that the continual drip drip of hostility is having an effect on public opinion and that the unholy alliance of Beeb haters will get their way in the end (ie ultimately it'll be reduced to public service broadcasting of the arts and general worthiness).

I can't see that the BBC has done anything wrong in this. It attempted to protect its source, and but for the scandalous actions of the MOD would probably have succeeded.

The Labour party will regret its short-termist and self-indulgent hostility towards the BBC. It will be much harder to complain if a future Tory administration bullies the BBC board into muting any criticism of the government. Labour may find it hard to get rid of a future Tory administration with most of the privately owned media in its pocket and a cowed BBC.

ArfArf, Saturday, 19 July 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

He slit his wrists. Ouch.

fletrejet, Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

'a knife and a packet of painkillers were found near the scene'
(bbc news)
...what were the painkillers for ?

piscesboy, Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

overdose?

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Or just numbing the pain? I would imagine slitting your wrists might be a scary proposition.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

so is it a confirmed suicide?

robin (robin), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know - look at Jamie's death in 24 for faked slitted-wrist suicide intrigue.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the police said they tht no one else wz involved

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

The bloody business card from an A****** C******* found there was a complete coincedence!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Anal Cunt have business cards?!?!

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yeah!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)


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