The Draft

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Under what circumstances would you fight for your country?

And how are you planning on getting out of it?

Tom, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Under no circumstances am I prepared to let the apes take over. If necessary I would take part in guerilla warfare.

Nick, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ohhhhhhhh canada....

jess, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

nick, did i read that correctly? i would think that it'd go without saying that a time like this calls for sensitivity and, above all, tolerance. "apes"? goodness.

my understanding is that the borders to canada, and even mexico, are in the process of being sealed as we speak. where to next, then?

fred solinger, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i THINK nick means apes as in cornelius and dr. zaius.

jess, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Err. yes.

Nick, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Never. I am a yellow concie

anthony, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick, don't you mean 'gorilla' warfare?

dave q, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm all for gorillaz warfare. I would fight for my country if it meant that Damon Albarn would be defeated once and for all.

Nicole, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was going to put that, but I didn't want to underestimate ILE's ability to spot the obvious joke. Unfortunately, the whole thing backfired and now Solinger thinks I'm some kind of monster.

Nick, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

He's a moron anyhow. I hope he gets drafted.

I won't fight for anything, but I'm a girl so I don't have to worry. I will physically maim my male friends (the ones I actually like, at least) though if it comes to it, because that whole "Don't draft me, I'm gay" thing won't work anymore. So Otis better start praying this draft ain't gonna happen otherwise I'm going all Kathy Bates in Misery on his ass, amongst others.

Ally, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

we all *know* you're a monster nick, but the only question is, what sort? i'm picturing a "my favorite monster." (was this only an amurrican phenom?)

jess, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Advice from a friend of mine (and I quote, sorta):

"If you get drafted, you are gay. Terribly gay. Ridiculously, flamboyantly, demonstratively gay. YOU LOVE MEN."

Took me a little while to get to the gist of that statement.

I think the cut-off age is 26 or 27, though, so I'm almost out of the woods, so to speak, if that's true.

Of course, if I travel to Italy, I'll probably get arrested for dodging the draft THERE, so perhaps I should flee to Canada, just to be safe. Anyone wanna take a roadtrip?

David Raposa, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i made a pass at my commanding officer, thinking it'd get me booted out, but it backfired and now i'm known as the regiment's bitch. damn.

fred solinger, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I got it Nick and had my first laugh of the morning. Thank you.

Samantha, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I imagine him as the Loch Ness Monster, the purple cartoon version.

Ally, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Send me, I don't care.

dave q, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The problematic thing is being sent off to fight somewhere a long way away where it isn't directly affecting your country and you're not sure if you are fighting for good or for someone elses motives. Big newsflash there, I know.

I come from a strong Forces background. I know plenty of people with conflict experience already and I'm worried what they'll be asked to do for this time. But I know the thought of getting out of it wouldn't occur to them. And that they would go out there and fight. I don't know what I'd do. I wouldn't want to fight, but if it got to the point where I'd be called up... I don't know.

Sarah, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This thread makes me think of I don't want to be a hero by Johnny Hates Jazz. No one would try to call me up as I can't even open a bottle of Grolsch on my own.

Emma, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Or 'Billy Don't Be A Hero' by Paper Lace. Isn't the Pinefox the world's biggest JHJ fan? Or have I got them confused with Go West, or Living In A Box, or Deacon Blue...

Andrew L, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They won't be calling me up, I'll be hiding under my bed where they can't find me. Unless they read this of course.

DG, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

just spoken by an "expert" on msnbc: "very few people liked to be bombed..."

fred solinger, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'd never fight for Ireland. I've no patriotism whatsoever. I hear friends talking about how great a United Ireland would be and laugh at them, cast the North into space or something I say.

Ronan, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If I'm drafted there isn't much I can do. Would have to go and be a human mine detector, or chemical weapon test subject, or whatever. My family were decimated during WWI and we lost a few people in WWII so I may as well go with tradition and get my head blown off too. Wouldn't want to kill anyone...

Paul Strange, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Too old, probably. Also have weedy arms, but I can run a long way (on legs). If they decide to settle this on the soccer field I'd be happy to 'lead the line' or 'fill the hole behind the front two' (specialities : shouting, pointless niggling of defenders,hitting the woodwork from 3 yards). Somehow I think NATO would pick M. Owen instead.

Dr. C, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Would have to go and be a human mine detector, or chemical weapon test subject, or whatever.

Paul, isn't that pretty close to what you do at work already? ;-)

Nicole, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm sorry, but saying that you have no patriotism and therefore wouldn't fight is just naive. It shows you haven't fought things through properly. Not every one who fights does so because of their RESPECT for their country, it's for their friends and family and for "home". There's that McCarthy lyric which is repeating in my head now, I'm not a patriot but... which is where I have an issue with McCarthy and their damn party line. Like Paul, I wouldn't want to kill anyone - but I don't want anyone to be killed anyway. To make light of it by saying "how would you get out of it" doesn't engage with the question - which is pretty damn heavy.

Sarah, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As I'm 30, I gather I'm beyond any sort of cut off (and as it is, I gather a lot of people are rushing the recruitment centers -- hey, by all means, folks, whatever makes you happy). For that I'm glad.

My dad, as I've mentioned before, was a career Navy man, graduated from the US Naval Academy in 1962 and served with distinction and ever-increasing rank and important assignments through 1992. Since I don't remember Vietnam at all due to my age (and as my dad was a submarine guy, there wasn't much he'd be doing there anyway) and since all the years since he was never in any wartime danger, I grew to regard his job as both a good thing to do and something where he'd always come home at the end of the day. A skewed vision, of course.

But I could never be military. Morally, philosophically, hell in terms of mental attitude alone. If they really wanted me, they'd have to question whether it was worth the effort, and frankly I don't think it is.

I've known folks who joined the military specifically because even though they hated it, they knew it would help them out of the rut they were in -- I'm talking homegrown anarchists in Bumfuck deep in the Midwest with no chance of affording college or the like. That's a bold decision to take in many ways, and for those reasons I really have nothing against anyone who wants to join up or would agree to go along with a draft, because who knows what the motivations are for them in the end? But right now this whole scenario is just making me more and more depressed.

I've been thinking to myself that I'll probably be dead at this rate within the next ten years for some reason or another.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually, being shot at and given anthrax or gassed wouldn't be that much different to being a lawyer here. Ugh. Hey, didn't Einstein say he had no idea what World War III would be fought with but WWIV would be fought with sticks and stones? That's even scarier.

Paul Strange, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The thought being that WW3 would devastate so much that they'd be the only things left to fight with? Arrrgh. I'm going to hide in bed.

Sarah, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Anyone ever read/see the Raymond Briggs' book/cartoon 'When The Wind Blows'? Damn that scared me. The fact that the two old people were so like my grandparents just made it worse.

Paul Strange, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Let me put in this way. I resent the state or anyone else making choices that should not be theirs to make. If I don't want to fight in a war, no matter what the cause, and if I feel the cause is not important to me, I think thats ok

Ronan, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My family doesn't have a distinguished war record (apart from one dude who almots won the VC) so I've nothing to live up to. Grandad Greenfield = Bilko.

DG, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

well i don't believe in my country, or countries as units worthy of beleiefs/deaths, so there goes that one - and hey, draft me if you like, i want to resist and be a prsion bitch, either that, or I'd just go in and psycho out, where's the fucking guns, i wanna kill, where are they hiding...

Geoff, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But Ronan, the same thing you could say about paying taxes. It's a more complex issue than not doing what people tell you because it doesn't directly affect you.

Sarah, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No because paying taxes is a productive cause which I believe in. Obviously this is all hypothetical, but I don't see how violent retaliation is justified ever. It may be necessary often but I don't want any part in it. There are plenty people who think the opposite who can join the army, I'm not one of them. Taxes are not an infringement on my personal liberty as the draft would be.

Ronan, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ronan, what is the difference between 'necessary' and 'justified' in this context?

Nick, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Apologies for the frivolity of the second qn Sarah (though it's not the first time that a silly qn has led to serious thort on ILE) - but evidence suggests that in a conscription situation those rich or well- connected enough to avoid combat will generally do so.

My answer? I am way too unfit to be a soldier and my heart condition would invalid me out anyway most likely. But if I thought the cause was just I would probably join up and try and do something when I might actually be useful - analysis or propaganda or something, I think I'd make quite a good propagandist. Is the cause just in the current situation, is the question.

Tom, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

**Taxes are not an infringement on my personal liberty as the draft would be**

Sorry, Ronan, but bollocks to that. I'd say it's unlikely, but nevertheless possible. that YOU, and ME, and others like us might have to forgo swanning around buying CDs and surfing the Web for a while whilst we DO SOMETHING to get the world out of this f@ckin'nightmare. Like others have done ON OUR BEHALF throughout history. As Tom said, it might not be necessary to don a tin hat and grab a gun to be useful, but whatever job it is it will for sure infringe your precious personal liberty.

Dr. C, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A couple of thoughts:
1) No-one has fought or died on my behalf, thank you, and I wouldn't ask them to.
2) Let's not get carried away about drafting, eh? This isn't WW2, vast quantities of manpower aren't necessary today, we have air forces to drop bombs from 30,000ft and miss instead.

DG, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

1) I didn't say die- I said DO SOMETHING 2) I said it was unlikely

Dr. C, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, yes sorry for getting a bit carried away, but I do hate it when people, usually from off of the telly, try to make me (as a member of the general public) feel guilty or even accountable for past events, cos 'they died for you'. No 'they' didn't.

DG, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

After I saw that TV show "a dance to the music of time" the draft don't bother me, coz I probably get a job in some office. I would be useless at fighting.

jel, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have a blood condition, have technically had a mental illness (well, depression, does that count?), and would be a conchie anyway. I'm also all skin and bones and would be just like Pike out of Dad's Army. I'd just be useless. Would think about being a first aid person but since a war would end in about 5 seconds nowadays what's the point?

Bill, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

After I saw that TV show "a dance to the music of time"...

Nails-on-blackboard: that's like saying, "After I saw that mini- series Moby Dick...!" Out of curiosity, though, when was there ever a television series made of it? I assume it was quite a long series...

A Dance to the Music of Time -- buy it! I am posting to ILE and doing my marketing job at the same time...

Nitsuh, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No Nitsuh, it was quite hilariously curtailed (four 50-min eps) on the idiotic grounds that (i) all TV viewers have tiny branes as per goldfish (ii) said g'fish are slavering for a 15678-part sequence of witty up-mid class novels abt the posh lost past to be compressed to lunatic degree and then acted like rubbish...

mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah Nitush as Mark S says it was a short series. And all I can remember of the one episode I saw was the guy having to work some cushy office job during in the war.

jel, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Necessary:The people want blood. Justified would be if this was morally correct which in my opinion it isnt.

Ronan, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

tip for avoiding draft related by my dad, and done by 1 ov his FRENDZ @ time of korea war. Get parents/relatives to work in shifts, & keep U awake for, like, 4-5 days. When my dad's friend went for his medical, HE COULDN'T EVEN HOLD HIS HANDS UP OVER HIS HEAD. They rejected him. It may work 4 U.

xoxo

|\|0|2/|\4|\| |=4'/, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I might enlist if I felt it was required to defend my family and if we lost the war it wouldn't be worth being alive anyway....but those aren't even convincing justifications to me. I'd do it out of guilt and trying to prove to myself that I'm not a coward. I would never let anyone else decide it for me, though (and currently I don't, being female and underage).

Maria, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...
Revive in honor of fresh talk over reintroduction of conscription!

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

No, don't revive

TOMBOT, Thursday, 26 February 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Who's talking about that??? Bad idea. One week's army cadet camp in North Yorkshire almost did for me. 'In the event of war I'm a hostage' -- Woody Allen.

ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 26 February 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

eight years pass...

If there was any way to ensure that rich people's kids couldn't weasel out of it somehow, would compulsory national service be a good idea? Not just military, but Americorps or the Peace Corps or other youth service programs.

Neil Jung (WmC), Saturday, 7 July 2012 22:14 (thirteen years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.