Where Should I Move: Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill or Seattle or Austin or Portland?

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We're tired of Wisconsin snow and passive-aggression and my wife grew up here and is sick to death of seeing all the same people she's always known. We've pretty much narrowed it down to the four places listed above (although I guess Canada is still kind of an option, Sean), because they share the following traits: tolerance, progressiveness, vegetarian-friendly-ism, good music scenes/venues, good public schools, stuff for the kids to do, and non-Wisconsin-being.

Arguments for and against any of these places will now be entertained. If you live in any of these places and vote solely on the basis of us NOT wanting to move there, then go ahead and screw you.

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

stay home

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

What about jobs? Can you do what you do there?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed: I can do anything anywhere I think. I might be running my own business actually, but I'm relatively employable anyway.

Horace Mann: ouch! can't tell if that's a vote against the four places, a vote for Wisconsin, or a 'stay out of Canada' vote

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

On the basis of never having been to any of these places I'd pick
Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. Mainly for being east. Its virginia isn't it, nice coastline not to far off I believe.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i have only been to austin so far. but dont you worry, i'll get to the others in time:)

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Seattle or Portland I'd say. West Coast, not that humidity/mosquito trap that is east.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. Mainly for being east.

That would be a reason to avoid it, surely?

Anyway come to Portland if you like unemployment and a fine quality of life (except for the unemployment). (Have I mentioned the lack of jobs?)

― Chris P (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Raleigh, etc are in North Carolina. It's a beautiful area. We thought about moving there before.

It's such a transitional time what with NA & I thinking about moving and now this thread.

Anyway, Neudonym, that's the only place I've been to on your list, but it's a great one. The changing seasons are beautiful here, the people are friendly, and Chapel Hill has lots of great music.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The people in NC are nice except for that one guy who overheard us talking about how we might move there and made some snide comment about how too many people were moving there.

― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

if this was in April, Nick, that mighta been me! (no sah)

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't go to Austin. I don't give a damn about Sixth Street, you'll still be surrounded by Texas. Tolerant and vegetarian, it ain't.

I don't know about the mosquitoes, but you'll learn to hate THE RED ANTS.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Lemme add to the chorale. I'm also thinking, not now, maybe a year from now, once I've given myself time to raise up a good chunk of change, that I wanna Escape From New York (TM). I love this city but it seems to be getting less hospitable by the minute. I surprised myself by how much I liked the west coast when I was out there, and I may wanna give that another shot... is there actually a west coast city where there's (a) reasonably clement weather year round (b) jobs (c) public transportation and in general a pedestrian-friendly layout (d) a low cost of living (e) jobs (f) shit that stays open late/some kind of nightlife? Portland's great but there's too much pollen and not enough jobs! From what I hear SF isn't looking too good either. :-(

Maybe I'll wait until Bush is out of office.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think Seattle is slowly becoming a better place to find jobs than it was the last two years (as far as tech stuff goes). I figure Portland is the same?

While I'd hardly call public transportation in Seattle or Portland state of the art, it's certainly adequate. Yeah, having a car is helpful but not required.

Portland is a cheaper place, and has slightly better public transportation. It also has a saner city geography, and less hills to walk up and down. On the other hand, Oregon has had a major crisis in school funding recently (to address the school issue mentioned in the original subject).

Oregon has no sales tax but hefty state tax. Washington has a hefty sales tax but no state tax.

There are lots of pros and cons with both places, but you really just have to visit both cities to "get" them, i guess.

Neud, if you do ever come out to visit, let us know!

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Seattle feels like an annex of the Veggie Republic. Many hole-in-the-wall Chinese or Japanese fast food places put HUGE signs outside saying "WE HAVE VEGETARIAN MEALS!", "VEGETARIAN FRIENDLY!". This makes me happy, but I still find it boggling.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

donut bitch I will definitely letcha know if I'm in your nape of the neck. I'm from the five oh thrizzy originally, so if I visit the home folks I'll maybe do that drive, blazin' it up like stoudamire&wallace

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The "five oh thrizzy"? Heh. I'm so gonna try to make that part of my active vocabulary. ;-)

― Chris P (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

my plan is working

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

the obligatory answer: worcester, ma.

― Chris V. (Chris V), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Worcester! (not moving there though)

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

someone else who's heard or been here. yay.

― Chris V. (Chris V), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Jody - Sacramento (if you don't mind rather hot summers).

― Kris (aqueduct), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i lived in summaville an cambrijj foah yeahzz, we played holy crahss

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I was past Worcester once on the way to Rhode Island, on business of all things. My glasses broke somewhere in New York state and I ended up using my prescription sunglasses and Worcester is about where the light ended that day. We ended up taking a turn-off there and staying overnight in Auburn, where the friendly neighborhood Lenscrafters fixed me up yo.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never been to the other three, and I've only lived there on vacation as a kid and only during the non-rainy Summer, and transportation/job-market caveats, etc., but Seattle is fantastic for mountains, bodies of water, food, coffee, ferries, etc.

(a friend of mine grew up just East of Worcester in Sutton, and I've been to her house)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

nick and sarah get
to update their thread so I'll
say: Austin? maybe?

anyone got reasons
for or against Austin Tex?
how are the schools there?

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Austin's really nice. I would say the only conceivable problem (besides knowing that you'd be in close proximity to fuckin' Rick Perry) is that it doesn't seem that easy to leave in terms of cheap flights and stuff (if you like to travel). But Dallas and Houston are relatively close and have beaucoup de airline hubs, so maybe that's a moot point.

Plus Austin has great natural cold springs to swim in in the hot summertime, like Barton Springs and Deep Eddy.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Austin's hot and humid as fuck. It's getting more expensive, though I think gentrification has slowed down post-boom, but you're still caught between aging hippies, tech-yuppies and UT students.

But it's still the 'coolest' city in Texas. I'd make a real argument that Fort Worth (or part of it) has the potential to be Austin-lite, if the rich fuckers don't manage to ruin everything that doesn't jive with the Sundance Square image. (Though they'd still ignore east Ft. Worth - too many minorities and poor people to give a damn.)

Three world-class museums, a multicultural populace, several decent universities, cheap living space, no mass transit but good roads and access to highways. Not quite as hot as Austin, but we're not talking a major difference.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

El Paso to thread

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

You want to move to Portland? Very good. I kill you now.

― Aimless, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, if you can sneak past our, uh, friendly Chamber of Commerce, Portland is great!

― Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Portland is one of the places I'd like to move environment- and culture-wise.

Somehow I imagine it being overrun by Chuck Palahniuk clones.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah Aimless what up?
I grew up in PDX
love it all the way

but not moving there
all my family bullshit
can just wait longer

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

If by "Chuck Palahniuk clones" you mean "unemployment", then yes.

― Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Good and bad things about Seattle? What's it like? Currently living in Austin and pondering going elsewhere....

― rw, Friday, 17 October 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

San Francisco has everything except jobs. Come here.

― adaml (adaml), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(well, nowhere's perfect, right?)

― adaml (adaml), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

There are jobs for me in the Bay area, just not SF proper and I really don't want to live in suburbia miles from downtown.

― rw, Friday, 17 October 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll tell you what: on this last tour, I spent time in Houston, and I LOVED it! The Rothko Chapel alone made it great, but there seemed SO much to like about it! The air quality was, of course, wretched, and so was the traffic, but I grew up in southern California so neither of those qualities really get to me. If we weren't already moving to Durham, I'd be looking hard at Houston & frantically trying to get signed to Rap-a-Lot

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

hey r w
talk to me about austin!
how have you liked it?

j0hn when do you move?
have you found a place, and why,
curious, blah blah

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

update on me now;
seattle, portland are out,
we might just stay here

but my wife departs
for Austin soon to research
neighborhoods and schools

NC still maybe,
still not sure what we will do.
(yeah like you all care)

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Move to Lexington, KY before it becomes unfashionable again.

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Talk to Kenan about Austin! He just moved from there last month!

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I already did!
he and I hung out down there,
had a couple beers

but he's from Houston,
really, as a kid I mean--
I want more info

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that your e-mail,
Haikunym? Would much rather
talk shop OTB.

(Meaning no offense
to my ILE homiez:
there's other factors.)

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yep

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Haikunym: I've been here five years and mostly liked it, for much of the reasons listed in your original post. The summer can be a bit too much though, depending on how much the heat bothers you. I've never lived anywhere else in the US, am from UK and maybe looking for a change. Culturally only so much reaches here from either coast which bothers me a little.

― rw, Friday, 17 October 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

interesting stuff.
I am sick of cold and rain,
texas sounds all right.

as for "culture" stuff,
I could give a rat's behind
for the cutting edge

it comes down to this:
the best place to raise my kids,
and to make a life

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Not really the 'cutting edge' I miss, but more 'global' culture. Sorry I can't comment on the schools though.

― rw, Friday, 17 October 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

cool, I understand.
thanks for the info, r-dub,
all grist for the mill

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 October 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 22 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

It's kinda dirty and hard to get around but donut bitch is there so it's not all bad.

Ur, this is kinda what I say about Portland, except replace "donut bitch" with "Chris. P, Jake, Charlotte, and now Douglas, etc.".

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(defining "hard to get around" differently)

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(and the $700 figure might be a bit inflated since the last I checked)

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

donut I would rate most of those 4 or 5, a few I couldn't care less about.

― rw, Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yes! Douglas, let me know when you're ready to FAP!

Be warned, we have no jobs in Portland.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

DB, you're seriously not suggesting that Portland is dirtier than Seattle, are you?

I mean, I'm not talking about the hippies.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the men's bathrooms at
Hung Far Low are plenty gross,
if memory serves

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/GeoImages/Starrs/cowboys/HUNGLOW.JPG

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i've been there.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

gets somewhat skeevy
at 3 in the morning when
you're blind stinkin' drunk

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

DB, you're seriously not suggesting that Portland is dirtier than Seattle, are you?

Actually.. um, I am. Walking around the east side by the Willamette seems, well, kinda dirtier and run down than I'm used to. I've had to walk through it all from downtown all the way back to the Belmont neighborhood (because apparently no buses I needed were running), so maybe I had a closer look than most. Portland always looked like it needed a little more scrubbing than Seattle (which could be a good or bad thing) to me.

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always been kinda polite on ILE about Portland, but since you've done enough public Seattle hatin', I felt it was time to me to, um, come out as a, well, you know, Portland non-lover. I love many people in the city, but I don't particular love the city as a whole.

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That seems crazy to me, Seattle always looks way dirtier, especially downtown, but even various neighborhoods have a thicker layer of city dirt than Portland does.

I have not been to Hung Far Low, actually, and hopefully won't go anytime soon.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

OH NO PORTLAND VS. SEATTLE FITE OH NO!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it just means all you dirt hippies up in the Pacific Northwest need to take a bath.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

it will end in rain.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

that last gygax! post
contains more layered genius
than a chimichanga

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'm glad you came out, it makes the public feuding more fun. ;-)

There are reasons to dislike Portland, I'll admit, but... well, while I've enjoyed Seattle more the last few times I've been up, there still isn't anything that actually seems appealing about it, w/r/t living there.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I go to downtown every day (often all around due to doctor appointments) to connect to my bus to Redmond, and there are people scrubbing and cleaning the place almost obsessively every weekday, so I, in turn, think you're talking crazy as well.

it will end in rain

gygax! = geniux!

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Things about Seattle and Portland most would agree with:
Portland = mid-sized city that wants to be a small town
Seattle = mid-sized city that wants to be a big town

I guess it's a matter of where your personality fits best.

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I lived in Chapel Hill/Carrboro while a grad student and liked it very very much. The major drawback (to me, anyway) was not being anywhere remotely close to a real city. Raleigh, Charlotte, Richmond are not actual cities in the Philly, NYC, Chicago, D.C. etc. sense (obv). This may not be a problem for you; it made me feel a bit isolated.

My understanding is that Carrboro schools are very good and Carrboro is more affordable than Chapel Hill, although I believe both are getting rather pricey real estate-wise. Chapel Hill schools are uniformly regarded as excellent. Durham schools a much more dicey matter.

― quincie, Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

portland would be great if not for all the hippies, yuppies, hipsters, anarcho-skateboarders and me.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

OUR RED BRICKS SHINE! They get soaped down regularly too, ya know.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

if not, then the Business Alliance stormtroopers make you with a toothbrush and a bucket of suddsy water.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks for the info,
quincie. me and my wife are
visiting there soon,

we've heard real good things
about durham's renaissance;
might just take a shot

jack can you meet up
january in canby?
get trashed in waite park?

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Does it have to be in Canby?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

should i bring the motley crue tapes or you?

(yes, CANBY!)

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i strongly recommend each of you meet mr. jack cole. he is a wise and captivating ambassador.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

*blushes, hides behind cloud of Shire pipeweed smoke*

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I wd be happy to meet Mr. Cole but CANBY?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Visiting the fam,
with my own fam (kids and wife),
might not get the chance

to get to Portland
with any extended time
to have fun hang out,

Chris, although I'd LOVE
to close down a sleazy bar
or two (Hung Far Low?)

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha ha

Canby where
the serial killers
sell garden goods
and Mrs. Polly
never takes a
single shower.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

OH NO SALEM OR VS. OLYMPIA WA OH NO!

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

that's the saddest fite
ever catalogued, db,
worse than spinks/tyson

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

and jack you're lying,
ms. polley took ONE shower
(I've had this checked out)

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there anything at all worth rating in Salem? We have the ugliest capitol building ever. Oh, I think someone said there's a good Indian restaurant there...

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I will try to get to Canby but sir, you do not make this easy on me, a nondriver.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

so i can i tell everyone you watched mrs polley take a shower,
though think of it makes me scream, shudder, shake and cower?

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

salem had for a while Joe Preston -- but i think he moved.

it also has/had the large mental hospital where my great aunt was a psychiatric nurse. i remember going there once with my mom to meet her and thinking of what i saw inside still creeps the bejesus out of me.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris hold out some hope,
maybe we can meet up in
more urban climates

And to Jack whose heart is Cole
Know that my soul you have stole
With your verse, vile as a vole
But my true heart you can't kill
I've an even bitterer pill
I got towelsnapped by Mr. Still

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

(my brother Tim worked
in that very hospital
I am pretty sure.

now he's a bigwig
in the OHSU Dermo
unit, stressed-out suit) [which is only funny if you remember my brother Tim, who was like this goofy-ass kid all the time and now is getting ulcers to go along with his huge paycheck]

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, i remember tim well.

as well as i remember mr. still telling the boys (the girls in a separate room) about how "our bodies are changing" and how he lacacted when he was a teenager.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember the
story about the dude whose
balls got towel-snapped;

as I remember
he said that those balls ended
up in dude's stomach!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

quincie is OTM about Carrboro/Chapel hill; it is very pretty, very laid-back, and the people are extremely friendly (from a yank perspective). There are giant fir trees everywhere, the university is freakin' huge, the only drawback is no nearby metropolis, but if that isn't a problem, it must be great for kids there.

― webcrack (music=crack), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't have the dough
to live in Chapel Hill so
it's Durham for us

(truth to tell I'd stay
here in frozen Wisconsin,
cold don't bother me)

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 9 December 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Haikunym, my brother works at OHSU, too.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 9 December 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

America's Foodiest Small Town

Imagine a place where foodies not only have a favorite chef, but also a favorite farmer; a place where the distance between the organic farm and the award-winning restaurant is mere miles; a place where a sustainable future is foreseeable. It's all a reality in Durham-Chapel Hill.

― mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 20:44 (seventeen years ago)

It's been years but I just wanna say all four of these areas are great.

― Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 21:06 (seventeen years ago)

In fact, I want to make a disconnected nation out of these four cities.

Radica

― Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 21:07 (seventeen years ago)

five years pass...

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/weather/2014/02/13/13390408/13390408-1392310232-640x360.jpg

raleigh, yesterday

― mookieproof, Thursday, 13 February 2014 21:01 (twelve years ago)

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