in violent times should i have to sell my soul?

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i'm gonna sound like a hippy, but i'm going through an honest "should i sell my soul for money" question right now. i'm going to have an interview at a law firm which does some work that i find obnoxious (i.e., union busting). i won't be doing the obnoxious work myself, but i'm really on a fence right now.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Erm, yes, if it helps you.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

colin and felicity to thread, of course!

anyway, it's just an interview and they might not like me anyway so this might be academic. but i was referred because i have experience in ERISA and employee benefits, and that's what i'd be doing (not the union-busting stuff). i'm at my wit's end where i am right now, but at least where i work they don't do stuff that gives me ethical problems. on one hand, a number of l-school friends who were "idealistic" went on to big-firm jobs doing stuff that their "idealism" would balk at (i.e., they're hypocrites). on the other hand, i come from a union family and i've always believed that it would be hard for me to look my dad straight in the eye if i ever worked at an anti-union firm.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"who's side are you on?" still has its power!

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Selling your soul in peaceful times would seem more of a betrayal.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You could always discuss it with your dad, that might help your decision making. If you explain the pros & cons, he might shed some valuable light.

Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Or you could take the job and just do it really badly.

"Bust the union? I thought you said boost."

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

don't do it

Neudonym, Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

dont.
morals and ethics cannot be bought, union busting is evil and good/noble tad will hate it.
dont.

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, but union busting isn't obnoxious, it's evil.

Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm probably making more of this than i should. as i said, it's just an interview right now. and my other liberal friends seem to have reconciled their beliefs to doing work that's obnoxious (one friend is working on defending a firm accused of securities fraud!) you make these sorts of deals with the devil in my line of work, but this kind of hits home.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't. ANd I have left jobs for similar reasons.

However if there was a chance that in the long run you could change the company from within - then maybe.

Pete (Pete), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

and i also don't want my friend (who recommended me) to look bad, so that's another consideration.

pete--no chance in changing from within. that's not the nature of the thing.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

But did your friend know going into his job that he'd be defending the film against Securities Fraud?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

not exactly -- but when you go into large law firms, you know that you won't be doing "save the world" stuff. that's the nature of the beast.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

better yet: go into interview, look and act all spiffy and desirable, and then when you think they want you, ask them questions about their union-busting. if you don't get the answers you want, then declare 'I could never work for bastards like you' and walk out holding your head high

Neudonym, Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Quite. You're in a situation where almost anyone you end up working for could take on that kind of contract, and would you then feel you had to resign?

Mark C (Mark C), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway, i just got a phone call from another firm -- i'll be interviewing with them too, doing pretty much what i do now (i.e., trusts and estates, tax, elder law). my problem with my current job is that (a) i'm not getting along with the boss; and (b) the pay sucks. i like what i do, just not where i'm doing it. which is why i'm interviewing at other firms now. i really am this close to walking out, or quitting law altogether unless i get out ASAP.

cross yer fingers and hope i knock 'em dead at the nice firm not the bad guys!

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Thirteen ways of looking at this question, including plenty of contradictions:

1. Small compromises lead to bigger comprises; if you don't set your own uncompromisable moral limits in advance, you run the risk of becoming unrecognizable to yourself in less time than you'd imagine.

2. In all legal jobs, there are three vital factors, two of which must be present to make it worthwhile: interest (fun), moral correctness, and money. 89.976% of all legal jobs are boring and immoral; beware those that pay well.

3. Never take a job that would make it difficult to look your family in the eye unless you have a hard time looking them in the eye otherwise.

4. The techniques of the enemy are best learned in the enemy's camp.

5. I have met happy associates and interesting associates at big law firms; I have never met a big firm associate who was both interesting and happy.

6. The labor movement in the United States is largely corrupt and moribund, as are the labor unions itself; representing management is less like siding with Goliath over David and more like siding with the US over Castro. There is no good guy.

7. A position with a management-side firm in no way rules out future labor-side work; on the contrary.

8. People who succeed at law firms are not those who best serve their clients or who understand the law the most; they're those who are the best at being law firm lawyers. Of course, those same guys tend to set the standards in the legal community.

9. I've lost twenty pounds since I left my firm; I tend to gain weight when I am unhappy.

10. It's hard to be idealistic when you're starving.

11. Law firm structure is such that, if you want to have nothing to do with the union busters and you can stay busy and earning without having anything to do with them, you won't have to have anything to do with them.

12. The actual management of a firm, how associates are treated, what sort of behavior is expected of them, and whether the work atmosphere is intellectual or hysterical are often more important on a daily basis than whether the clients are good guys or bad guys.

13. I'd rather die than ever work for the benefit of corporate capitalism ever again.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Read _Confessions of a Unionbuster_

Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, 24 July 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

cross yer fingers and hope i knock 'em dead at the nice firm not the bad guys!

Mucho luck, Tad! Tis apparent that you actually enjoy doing law as a profession, so stick with it. (I can say this having lost my delusions of becoming an Entertainment lawyer after a miserable 6 months in Law School.)

Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

No, you shouldn't have to.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I have about had it up to here with certain unions in this country anyway (shockah) so I say if you have a chance to make certain industries in this country globally competitive again by forcing, f'rinstance, the UAW to end its absurd labor price-fixing schemes, then go for it.

Millar (Millar), Thursday, 24 July 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...
I just did a voice-over for an ad that I really should have turned down; it was basically even if you've got a small dick you can still buy a big diamond, fuck fuck fuck why am I in marketing at all? The diamond trade sucks and introducing body issues into advertising is bogus; if the diamonds came wrapped in factory-farmed pork they would have hit like my moral shit trifecta arrrrghhh.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 25 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

not asking for sympathy or oh it's okay because it's not, just venting.

This is the thread where we fail at our morals!

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 25 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

there are plenty of careers in the legal professtion that do not involve selling your soul or starving. they also may not involve a new audi, so you have to decide which is most important to you. but it is ridiculous to claim that you can't find a decent paying job and keep your morals entact. (not that you said this tad, it is just more or less implied by many in the profession and others who have no respect for it.)

Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)


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