I got laid off today! In a very strange way, I might add. Not sad, just looking for advice...

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I've never lost a job before, so I got a few questions. I got 2 weeks severence pay and can collect unemployment (though I'm really not sure how it works or how to go about it...)

What I was wondering is if this makes sense and how to describe my situation to future possible employers who would rightly want to know the circumstances of my dismissal.

Okay, I've worked for this one guy for almost 5 years and worked my way up to a large amount of responsibility. We've had problems organizing the work that needs to be done due to his inability to let me do the job(s) I've been delegated to do. I was given 3 promotions and 3 raises and more and more responsibility. However, he would frantically stick his nose in near the date of the deadlines and literally screw everything up. Basically, we couldn't work together is what it comes down to. He wanted me to do it "my way" because he had utmost faith in me. In fact, he said he was "grooming me" for his position. But would always take over the jobs and screw up the entire team, upsetting everyone. We had several lunches, the team and I, and we decided he was afraid of losing his power in the company (he is nearing retirement age). Since I was in charge of the team, I would have confrontations with him because he was a confrontational man. It was never anything too terrible, and to prove this point:

1. I was not fired, I was laid off (something he made sure to point out)
2. He told me he thought of me "as his son"
3. He said I was "too good to be doing all the work, rather than delegating it to other people"... In essence, this was our whole problem: I believed it was less confusing for people to work on individual jobs in their entirety (and provided a system for doing so) and he wanted the entire team working on bits and pieces of every job so that "nobody was ever NOT BUSY". In the end, his system had proven to blow deadlines and cause an enormous amount of hostility all around (not just me). His way was to force everyone to work needless weekends and my way was to allow for "flex time" before or after work to get the job done.
4. He told me losing me would hurt him more than me because I am "the most important person there"... Conveniently, though, he waited until a slow period during the year.
5. He offered to give me a letter of recommendation and said I could even write it myself and he'd just sign it.

6.He asked me if I would be willing to do freelance for him!

What it boils down to, I believe, is that he felt threatened, which is understandable. But, how the hell do I explain this whole scenerio to a potential employer? It's just too bizarre... Advice?

― Nude Spock, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That sucks big style. You should try some sort of employment tribunal to get your job back or at least get a better severance package. Best of luck in finding new employment.

― Billy Dods, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thanks! It's not like I really want the job back, though, if things are to remain the same. I was thinking since he said I could write my own letter of recommendation FOR HIM which he would just sign, I could write something like, "Nude Spock is an excellent worker who, in the years I've worked with him has continually advanced, has met all deadlines and objectives, etc. His determination and focus earned him three promotions in the 4 years he's worked for me, steadily advancing from entry level to executive status. I regret that our differences of opinion regarding management style have forced us to part ways, but I would recommend him highly without reservation."

;-)

How's that for tootin' your own friggin' horn. Fucked up thing is it's true, but I wonder how he'd feel reading these words and then signing them... probably like, "Uh, why did I let him go... ?"

Anyway, further advice is needed, so any info on what it's like to be unemployed, laid off, etc.?? Never happened to me before.

― Nude Spock, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good Luck!

We are heading towards bleak economic times with the war/recession. You will find work but it will take awhile to find something comparable.

― Jay Simon, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

On a lighter note, if you remove the 'off' from the subject line of the thread, your predicament becomes terribly amusing. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

unemployment requires a new approach to the game - depending of course on yr plans ie how long you wish to stay on dole, how long you can survive on the dole, what yr commitments are, and how attracted you are to pursuing new things. in terms of power relations, the beuracracy becomes something very uch bigger - hours spent waiting in phone queues to plead yr case etc, but if you can work yr way around this, play their game without getting beaten down by it, unemployment offers up new times for you to peruse yrself, to become - I recommend it, a good period of 6 months, followed by a suplementary course of further study...books are good friends.

― Geoff, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Re point #3 in the original question ('Nobody ever not busy') - that's EXACTLY the policy that makes my job so shitty. I think managers implement this policy and then hire cretinous boneheads for you to work with on purpose, just to keep those fires of resentment and Sisyphean pointlessness stoked on full power. Plus, that way no fuckup can ever be traced back to the whoever was responsible, so the people who naturally shirk responsibility can sit and scratch their asses in the shadows without fear of getting fired like the passive- aggressive whiny wrecks they are, and the people who actually pick up all the slack get blamed on the inevitably crappy result.

― dave q, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Look, he wasn't grooming you - he was fattening you up for the kill. Platitudes such as the ones up there from sacker to sackee have the same ring of truth as 'it's not you, it's me' at breakup.

The freelance thing: sounds like he wants to keep your services, but eradicate any benefits you'd be entitled to as a full-time worker. I think employers who do this are breaking labour laws - and they would be, in Britain.

― suzy, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm very sorry to hear that. I was just about to congratulate you, and then the second time I read your thread title I spotted the word "off".

The scenario you describe is commonly known as UNFAIR DISMISSAL.

You have NOT been "laid off" as your boss claims. You cannot possibly be redundant if he is offering you work on a freelance basis, because this means there is still a need for your post and the work you do.

Under the redundancy rules you are legally entitled to one week's full pay for every year you've been working for the firm, UNLESS you have been employed under a series of short term contracts which is increasingly common practice for many firms these days.

But the scenario you describe here cannot possibly be redundancy - was there a formal redundancy selection procedure? Were you notified in advance in writing by your boss that he was going to have to lose certain members of staff? Did each member of staff have a redundancy selection interview?

If the answers to all of the above are "No" then it all adds up to unfair dismissal. You need to see a solicitor and fast, as such claims must be lodge (I think) within three months of the date you were unemployed.

Of course, I am assuming you're from England here - I don't know the legal position in America but hopefully someone else on this list knows the score.

Good luck.

― Trevor, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What you are talking about depends on the size of the business. Believe or not, businesses break the laws and to take said businesses to tribunals and what not would cost alot of money. Justice is for the rich. The rich can and will often break labour laws because they know that. It is very often not worthwhile to go to labour board.

(I know because I went through a similar situation with the Backstreet Boys).

― Jay Simon, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wow. A lot of this going around; I got laid off on Friday (hence my silence on the boards. Seems my company was harder hit by the 9/11 tragedy than we'd been led to believe as four of us (all relatively new hires) were given a month's severance and a hearty handshake.

Anyone got friends in the Boston area who wants to hire a programmer?

― Dan Perry, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dude, Dan, that bites. :-( I guess we are indeed in recessionland. Hope everyone here looking gets something soon (well, that doesn't involve wearing uniforms).

In the meantime -- the Backstreets, Jay? Can you tell us anymore without getting into trouble?

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

david q - I agree with everything you said about spreading the shit around to remain in absolute power. I'm positive that's his game and probably has been his entire life. Oh well. I'm getting a new G4 and doing some new work in the coming weeks and will be putting up a website, printing up 2-color resumes w/matching business cards and signing up through a freelance agency. Wherever I work, I'll leave a resume and show my portfoliol.

Trevor, thanks for all the advice. I'm from America, though... NYC to be specific. I'm thinking it might be hard/weird looking for work, but NYers seem pretty determined to keep on working like all's normal here. Also, my girlfriend lives with me so the rent's not too bad. I can pay my half off one week of enemployment...

And that brings me to what Geoff said about staying on unemployment until I'm ready... I was thinking I would. Even if for some reason I couldn't get unemployment after a while, I'll just charge some credit cards (thankfully, I have no charge card debt) until I'm ready to proceed. I just went to the super market and bought a bunch of cool shit for "inspiration" in order to mock up some concepts for packaging and whatnot. As long as your photorealistic computer rendering skills are up to par and you do have experience, people don't really care if your portfolio is real stuff or not, but whether or not the quality of what you're showing is impressive.

DJ Dan, that sucks. We got laid off the same day... shit, and you linked me on yer site... I hope that wasn't my bad luck spreading by osmosis. However, the day before I got laid off, I got a "lucky $2 bill".

To be frank, I was disgusted by the company, bored of the work and felt like I was in a rut. My plan was to save up $$ and then quit, but this almost works out better in a weird way. I'm the kind of guy that needs a fire under his ass to do stuff sometimes. I feel bad if it seemed like I was whining or something. Thanks for all the advice. Be talking to y'all soon from a new IP#. ;-)

― Nude SPock, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

best of luck dan and spock

― mark s, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good luck to you both. I wish i could do something . If i hade millions then well, but i dont so if theres anything i could do ?

― anthony, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am also going to be made redundant at the end of October, thanks to J*mes Br*own's company IFG buying out the bit of the company I currently work for. Already gone - one publisher and one art editor. More will follow, as JB tries to somehow turn a profit on declining titles that he paid WELL over the odds for. My one piece of grim satisfaction will be watching the near-inevitable collapse of this new empire.

― Andrew L, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andrew, James Brown is a twunt who models his aesthetic on Trevor Beattie's. He is for some reason scared of me, according to friend who also does bits for IFG. I will be happy to see his demise.

― suzy, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What did James Brown ever do to you? Git down! Get on up! Feel the funk! Oh yeah, YOWZAH!!!

― Kate the Saint, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

best of luck dan and spock

I can only echo what Mark said. Hope you both find something good soon.

― Nicole, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'd like to chip in that as of this week someone else has been found to take over my (temp) position in my current MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT. But apparently they want to keep me. Department is restructuring LIKE A RUBBER POM POM and no-one knows what's going on. This means I get paid to "um, hang about, help out, somewhere..."

I wish I knew what was going on, do I go back to the Classified ads and go on JOB INTERVIEWS in my SUIT ho ho that my parents bought for me?

CAN YOU IMAGINE ME IN A SUIT?!

― Sarah, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Have just done so and 'tis vvvvvvvvvvv odd.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ned, regarding the BSB, I can't really discuss it, especially on- line. I used to work for a (dunno how to put it without giving the game away) - a high powered entertainment company. I know alot, too much, about things, that you think are innocuous!!! Now, having talked about it, I'm off to take a shower.

― Jay Simon, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That said, I just got offered freelance work for this week! Hooray! Ooeeeoo, let's see if I can brush up my (somewhat dusty by now) web designer skills. I design gud, me.

― Kate the Saint, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And that being said, once having gave up the job, my wife and I make very little money but she is able to run her antiques shop and I am able to promote small bands that I really enjoy. Money ain't everything folks. Love is.

― Jay Simon, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hippy. Go hug a tree.

BITTER.

― Sarah, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's true!

When I got my job in the entertainment industry I thought I was set. I was just very unhappy all of the time. My wife and I are very happy. We spent weekends in charity shops buying fifties antiques and evenings watching the bands I am promoting. Life is fun again.

― Jay Simon, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

BITTER.

Wrong thread

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bugger

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bah life is not fun it is something to be endured and hurt it and I hate it all and did I mention I don't have a boyfriend and I'm going to be allooooooonneee boo hiss cry....

Ah well, off to the ALCOHOL threads I go!

― Sarah, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would however like to add that life is a hell of a lot easier with money coming in. I hate the way that money seems to underline everything I do, social life, home life, blah ect. Even relationships pah.

― Sarah, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You don't need money for everything. You would be surprised.

And you shouldnt be sad, from what I understand you have a very nice suit.

― Jay Simon, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

PS.

Happiness is worth more than money. Hard to understand but it is very true.

― Jay Simon, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What about when the two are linked? It's not so easy as all that. Can't deny money makes it easier. And shush, I'm going stop being miserable on ILE now so nur. However this does mean I might have to listen to annoying co-worker going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ect. SHURRUP.

― Sarah, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thanks for the well wishes, guys. I'm flooding the Internet with my resume even as I type this, so hopefully it won't be too long before I'm a busy worker bee again.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can imagine you in a suit Sarah. In fact, I'm doing so RIGHT NOW. MMMMM!!!!

― alex t, Tuesday, 25 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You think that's hot? Now imagine me with a BRIEFCASE.

― Sarah, Tuesday, 25 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

STOP! STOP! It HURTZ!

― alex t, Tuesday, 25 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

After being unemployed for a month I must say its like an awakening ...life seems so meaningless. Does work really give life meaning, and if so, should we alll leave and look for a better world?

― Mike Hanle y, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>> He told me he thought of me "as his son"

OK, that in itself just seems very, very weird. I'd say you're better off out of a job where the boss says that sort of thing. Sounds like a lot of psychological strangeness going on with this guy...

>>But, how the hell do I explain this whole scenerio to a potential >> employer?

Just tell them you're laid off -- that's technically true, and there's a lot of it going around lately. I'd find someone else (relatively sane) at the company who could give you a reference for future jobs, because god only knows what this guy's going to say if somebody calls!

― Layna, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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