Why can't you graduate?

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From my email inbox today:
Colleagues,

The following message confirms what we have been hearing:  in accord with Chancellor's Office decisions following the latest round of budget cuts to the CSU, Cal State Fullerton will not accept applications for Spring 2004.  CSUF will admit no new students for the Spring 2004 semester.

Thomas P. Klammer, Dean
College of Humanities & Social Sciences
California State University, Fullerton

Ok, so they passed the budget, but there isn't enough money in it to allow admitting students to the State University in California?

Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What can be done?

Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

That sounds rough. How many students generally enter for the spring semester, though?

Prude (Prude), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Budget cuts are very frustrating. Short of hitting up wealthy alums or applying for grants, I don't know if there's anything you can do. I'd imagine the school is trying to patch holes and deal with already existing problems.

Prude (Prude), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing, but I estimate an incoming class of about 10,000

Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe a little over half of that actually enter. It is a large state university.

Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

For the spring semester? That's a lot... I can't really offer any suggestions of what to do, but I've been through two schools (and their put-upon english departments) that have faced major budget crunches. It's not easy, but life goes on.

On a side note, do you teach there, Orbit?

Prude (Prude), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup.

Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 1 August 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

And what do you teach?

Prude (Prude), Saturday, 2 August 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, an academic..
Tell me, from that perspective inside the ivory tower, just how unwise is it to pursue a PhD in literature these days?

and as far as budget.. Wow, what can they do? how disastrous is it to not allow new admissions for spring? as opposed to raising tuition for everyone? They've prob already done that, right.
My brother's at a public university and I am sure any tax breaks my parents got were more than taken up by the huge tuition increases in the past year.
(See Onion article on Maryland closing down.. hah!)

daria g (daria g), Saturday, 2 August 2003 05:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you planning on going into academia yourself? I'm just about to start a PhD program in literature myself. It's pretty much essential to get a tenure-track teaching position. If you don't want to teach... Well, I've been told it's far too much work and stress to earn the degree if you don't need it.

Prude (Prude), Saturday, 2 August 2003 05:50 (twenty-two years ago)

do it if you love it ... every job's got some BS (and in academia there will be lots of BS), but at least if you like what you do it's easier to put up with the BS.

Tad (llamasfur), Saturday, 2 August 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, yes, there's more than enough BS to go around in academia. And like I said earlier, life goes on. You write, you teach, you learn... Once it becomes just another job do things like budget cuts become serious deterrants.

Prude (Prude), Saturday, 2 August 2003 06:53 (twenty-two years ago)

They recently had a hiring freeze at the University of Texas at Austin, too, but inside sources say that was mostly ceremonial. You can still get hired there if you know someone. They just stopped accepting outside applications, is all -- it's still the city's biggest employer, bigger than the state governmant, even. And the cutback in acceptance of students has been a long time coming. It's already the biggest single school in the nation -- they cannot and should not continue to grow. It's not near as bad in Texas as it is in California. It only seems that way.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 2 August 2003 07:08 (twenty-two years ago)

RE: PhD in Literature?
I wouldn't do it if I were you, but of course it is up to you. It is much easier for a social scientist (me) to cross over into business/government/market research/media than it is for an English major.

You will be put on the track to be a professor, and the industry is shrinking the tenure track in favor of part-timers to cover classes (academic temps really). If you want to teach at community college, just go get a masters' degree. According to the MLA recently I think the average number of applications per tenure track position was 300.

Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 2 August 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to echo Orbit here (especially since I was on that Phd Lit track some years back). The job situation was bad throughout the nineties and like Orbit sez for institutional reasons it will not get better soon.

Do grad school (in the humanities or out of it) for two reasons alone:

1. It is ABSOLUTELY what you must do with your life. You know it will make you happy, you know a professorial/instructional job is precisely what you want to do, etc. In which case, follow your bliss but keep your eyes open every step of the way.

And/or:

2. You don't have to pay for much or all of it and you can afford to indulge an interest in learning. Your heart is not set on a career in it necessarily and even if you leave early you do so with reduced savings (or fellowship/scholarship coverage) instead of a crushing, nothing-to-show-for it debt, and you will still have had the benefit of learning and working on something of interest to you.

If you don't fit into either category, avoid grad school. Just don't.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 2 August 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I know all these things. I'm already mired in it, actually - and I hadn't thought through all the caveats well enough when I started. It would have been nice for my department to explain the situation to me before I agreed, but this is asking too much it seems.
Now that I've done a year, I don't doubt that I could, should I so choose, play the game properly and be successful and represent myself well and be a good candidate.

What concerns me is.. worrying that I'm pretty much letting myself get jerked around in a major way by going along with the party line in academe, which is, sure you'll land a tenure-track job! we know the market is tough but that doesn't count for YOU.

And so I'll go along with it and work my butt off for a couple more years, living on very little, in debt, in a city I'm not super fond of, all on the premise that this is following a path & a plan toward a job in the field. And I don't think I want primarily to teach; I haven't done it yet so perhaps I will love it, who knows - I want to research & write, above all - I don't dislike the idea of teaching but I don't want to ONLY do that at a community college level or as an adjunct.

Outside academe, I seriously think of working in international relations. My degree will be in foreign language actually, not English literature, so I'll have at least two other languages even if I decide to quit after the MA. I'm following closely both the Chronicle's job listings by e-mail, and jobs outside the field, and hell, the job market for *anything* else I am good at (web development, publishing) is terrible too, so I may as well stay where I am for the time being. (OK, end rant - I am glad for having written that down).

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 3 August 2003 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Where are you studying daria?

Mary (Mary), Sunday, 3 August 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Le français.. c'est-á-dire la littéature française et francophone.

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 3 August 2003 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

arg. littérature. HTML special characters, I should just not bother sometimes.

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 3 August 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

*shyly*
I wuv u.
*runs away*

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Sunday, 3 August 2003 03:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Can you get at least a TA position next year, Daria? Teaching is really the make-or-break thing, I think. If you love it, it'll (probably) make all the other BS about the job (not to mention the BS of actually finding a job) bearable. If you hate it, as Ned said, look elsewhere. Personally, I've loved what teaching experience I've had. Getting a taste of it can give you a sense of whether or not you want to invest the time and energy into pursuing the degree.

Prude (Prude), Sunday, 3 August 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

it could've been worse ... you could have gone to law school.

Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 3 August 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

True dat!

Prude (Prude), Sunday, 3 August 2003 07:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Daria should make Francis her loveslave and go conquer Puerto Rico.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 3 August 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

ça c pas possible! ben, alors si g un stalker qu'il m'en parle koi.

woah dude, when I read Puerto Rico there I just got some horrid déja vu sense, I think I have to leave now. eep.


daria g (daria g), Sunday, 3 August 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

putain, j'en ai marre koi.

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 3 August 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

in academia there will be lots of BS

Thats putting it midly. I spent more time tangling with my small, small universities administation then studing for some courses. We brought in a complete jerk to bring our budget into line. Courses were chopped, our whole Eng and Ed programs were taken out, our tution doubled and then some to $4500 (second highest in the country) and the students went through 2 faculty strikes, one support staff strike and another librarian strike. 10 years later, we are back in the black, highering new tenure track positions (and hopefully replacing the Writer In Residence position) and could still use a few more science teachers.
If you have a doctorate in sciences, come to Canada, we need you!

I can't be bother to add to the classless society thread, seeing as it seems to focus on tution which isn't the same issue up north.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 3 August 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

If you have a doctorate in sciences, come to Canada, we need you!
Well, if you can use a Social Science PhD, I'm on the plane!

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 3 August 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

*shyly*
I wuv u.
*runs away*

-- Francis Watlington (peppermintsmok...), August 3rd, 2003. (Francis Watlington)

This deserves a "Cutest Non-Sequiter" award. Adorable!

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 3 August 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Sadly I dont know about that, chances are greater then a humanities though. I wish I could remeber the publication most universities up here use for job postings.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 3 August 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

''If you have a doctorate in sciences, come to Canada, we need you!''

I'm listening...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 3 August 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

You already know people at UofT, Canada's most crowded university.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)


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