Norbert Hernandez of Love & Rockets - classic or dud

but yeah, my impression is that Jaime's stories are all set in America while Gilbert's are back in the old country.

Does anyone know if Gilbert's stories in L&R form a continuous narrative in the way that Jaime's are meant to?

also, I have started the first L&R book, and while I find it interesting it's not the complete brilliance L&R's reputation would lead me to expect. Are later books better?

later books are better i think

I think that I think Gilbert is the better artist

there is a third brother actually, but i can't be bothered to look his name up

Books: Book 2 ('Chelo's Burden') is where the L&R really kicks off. Music for Mechanics is mostly made up of early experiments. It's interesting to see the changes in storytelling style as you go through the books - Jaime becomes less Sci-Fi, Gilbert piles in more political content.

Also search: The Death of Speedy (Jaime), Blood of Palomar (Gilbert).

I never liked any of Mario's work though.

I like the giant breasts.

(And yes, I like the giant breasts as well.)

Jaime is the artist I prefer, too - I think he could draw just abt ANYTHING, any subject/style/genre, whereas Beto's art doesn't really seem to work that well outside of the Palomar 'universe' (ie that rather iffy comic he did w/Peter Bagge a cpl of years back for DC)

Gilbert's stories aren't all set in Palomar (_Love & Rockets X_ is essentially a giant ensemble piece about a party in Southern California and its buildup and aftermath), but they do almost all involve portions of the same large group of characters. There's going to be a 500-page book called _Palomar_ out next month, collecting all the Palomar stories from the original L&R series (though not the related ones, e.g. no "Poison River" on the one hand or "BEM" on the other).

One connection I noticed a few years ago to my delight: Venus, the little girl in the kids' stories Beto does for _Measles_, is the daughter of two of the characters from _Birdland_, the XXX-rated miniseries he did in the early '90s.

If you think Gilbert's stories are disjointed, you are not reading anywhere near carefully enough.

Uh, what the hell are you talking about, Jess?

My local comic shop is selling off for cheap a lot of the old L&R volumes.

All the Jaime volumes have been snapped up, but still plenty of Gilbert to be had. My new theory is that rough and hard-to-live Gilbert is the more indie choice, so I might pick up his "Blood on Palomar" (as the people who created the Over The Edge game cite it as an influence).

I bought the three Palomar reprint volumes and love them to bits. find the Jaime stuff harder to get into for some reason.

"norbert"?

Jaime's too soap-opera for me and really, why don't you just show the sex? THE SEX? Quit hinting at it, this isn't fucking Strangers in Paradise.

I am to read Heartbreak Soup this weekend, very excited meee!!!

Gilbert's probably the better writer, but not by much, and Jaime's art is so beautiful. I liked Gilbert's Ditko influence in the earliest issues, like omg 25 years ago.

People who think Gilbert is a bad artist are INSANE.

Anyway, he's a fucking prolific as hell genius.

Palomar, the collection, is frustrating because it doesn't include the Poison River graphic novel, which is tremendous, takes place in the middle of the Palomar stories and provides totally essential back-story. Without reading it, I'm not sure how the final chapters of Palomar make any sense.

Who said Gilbert is a bad artist?

I've seen mention here and there...I suppose I'm overreacting, mostly it's "cruder than Jamie", which, obviously, is a tough barometer, but I don't find this work "crude" at all, just more expressive or something. I'm no good at talking about art, but he's done some compositions, some pages, that just blow me away, as good as anybody.

i've noticed a fair few of Beto's panels will often forego background detail, even if he's included major characters in there altho at other times his background atd is intentionally heightened e.g. use of that racist cartoon icon throughout most of poison river.

Palomar, the collection, is frustrating because it doesn't include the Poison River graphic novel, which is tremendous, takes place in the middle of the Palomar stories and provides totally essential back-story. Without reading it, I'm not sure how the final chapters of Palomar make any sense.

OTM really i was totally confused reading the second half of the Human Diastrophism volume when that Gordo dude showed up. Poison River itself is so dense and dizzying - using one page to reveal facets of plot that make you think you missed 10 previous pages, but in a good way.

Just read Heartbreak Soup compendium. Where is a place Palomar could be located, given its demographics?

Decided I love Gilbert waaaaaaaaaaay more...Maggie/Hopey got to be a little Strangers in Paradise by the end.

Poor Mario, still getting no love.

I have no idea how many in-jokes and allusions to Los Bros themselves (as opposed to their characters and style and etc.) exist in others' work but one of my favorites remains the bit in Clowes' Pussey! when said character visits a Gary Groth analog, Larry Anger. Who then in turn is visited by the 'LaRosa Brothers,' who walk in with somewhat glum looks and say, "We've finished retiling your bathroom and here's the latest issue of 'Affection and Torpedoes.'"

WAP reference rather than Bros, innit

All these things, and more!

I think the Palomar stories are the greater sustained work, but Jaime hits greater heights for brief bursts. (Death of Speedy, "Flies on the Ceiling")

Wow, Blood of Palomar is genius, at least so far.

why don't you just show the sex? THE SEX? Quit hinting at it, this isn't fucking Strangers in Paradise.

it would be great if people applied this kind of argument when visiting their friends.

what other Gilbert books are recommended?

i'll probably get the Luba In America stuff

what other Gilbert books are recommended?

just get the three from the new reprints

as a tightwad, I am somewhat limited by the ones that my local comic shop is selling off cheap, which are the old-format books.

OK den - if you can, snap up vols 2-6 (these are split between Jaime and Beto with the occasional Mario in but have all the early Palomar short stories in), then or otherwise move forwards to X and Poison River - these are both graphic novels that are self-contained but read v differently if you have the backstory (on characters in X) or frontstory (on Luba in Poison River). Then go for Luba Conquers The World, but don't bother getting this if it's the only one they have.

I haven't read any of this stuff since it came out but Beto is (was?) totally the better storyteller/writer - his "world" seems much more engaging and fleshed out.