Angry Comedians

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What think you of the whole "angry comedian" genre, personified by Sam Kinison, Denis Leary, and Bill Hicks? I think it was most popular in the mid- to late-80's. The whole idea of having to be angry all the time for the bits to work seems kind of forced and a dud. How did anger and humor get to be all mixed up like this?

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 11 August 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

denis leary = worse than bob hope

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 August 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

give me angry over irony any day.

― kephm, Monday, 11 August 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

bill hicks is still classic. i mean he can sure spit bile and rage at all my favorite enemies, but its matched with a certain boy like charm.

as for the other guys you mentioned, i dont know them.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i also think it would be beautiful is bill was still around today to shit on all the puppets and hollywood bits of fluff.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I still like Bill Hicks, Dennis Leary is a bit passe now tho I think!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"is" was supposed to be "if" in my last message

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Leary is who inspired this thread. There's been all this whoo-hah on COmedy Central leading up to his roast last night, and they were showing a more recent Leary concert, and he was still acting all pissed off, but he was talking about his kids and not smoking, and it was just kind of inappropriate.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

dont they say leary just ripped off hicks anyway?

Hicks is angry but also quite sad at times, the fact that the stuff he bemoans is at the point of comedy seems to get to him somewhat which makes him a bit more human. I started a thread about that point a while back but I'm not sure where it is.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Dennis Leary stopped smoking? I feel like crying.

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan very much on the money about bill hicks, i think anyway. thats pretty much why i like listening to his stuff (which ive only recently heard actually), he makes me feel as well as laugh.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The damage these people have done to a generation of student journalists is incalculable.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Morris is surely reclaiming them. FWIW none of my class are into any of the above, they're all seinfeld/billy connolly fans as far as I know.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, I meant people who write for student newspapers, not people on journalism courses.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 11 August 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't the first Tool album dedicated to Hicks?
Dennis Leary is from Worsester, Ma. The man used to play cards with my uncle blah blah blah

― kephm, Monday, 11 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Not as much damage as HST though.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to quite like Bill Hicks, but his stuff hasn't aged very well to me. Very, very preachy, in retrospect. Leary's schtick, by contrast, is still funny to me. I'd take blind anger over smarmy irony as well, but both can get dull after a while. Lewis Black's approach, for example, of bug-eyed apoplexy gets very old very quickly, I find.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Lewis Black. But I only see him every few months. I mean, I wouldn't wanna live with the guy, though he's probably not like that when he's not working.
Y'know who I think is funny in a not-in-the-way-he's-supposed-to-be-funny-kind-of-way?
Colin Quinn. In the Comedian doc, every single shot of him when he's not on stage, he's stuffing his face. Pushing Seinfeld to eat more. Cracked me up. Best part of the movie.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Ditto everything Alex said. I think the difference is whether or not there are jokes beneath the persona. Sam Kinison, Bill Hicks -- not always, but often, and Lewis Black tend(ed) not to actually say much. It's just the "look at me being indignant" pose. Leary's got jokes; the fact that he can abandon the persona as often as he does shows that.

(I've also found that most of the people I know who think Denis Leary is funny -- or who think Adam Sandler is sometimes funny, and have graduated high school -- are from New England, so maybe there's a regional ... resonance, or something.)

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Lewis Black too, based on his Back in Black bits on the Daily Show, which are pretty short (about 5 minutes). His anger occasionally seems kind of forced and fake, but his material is typically strong enough to overcome it. He almost acknowledges that the anger is fake, cracking a grin once in a while.

I like Leary's classic stuff, the MTV bits and the Cure for Cancer concert. But like I said, his newer stuff was a bit sad.

I've never understood the appeal of Sam Kinison. He's so shrill.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

+++so maybe there's a regional ... resonance,

blame all the moxie we drink, our teeth are sore.

― kephm, Monday, 11 August 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Like the student journalists comment -- the thing that bugs me most about this school of comedy is the imitators it spawns. The kids who think you can be funny just by quoting Monty Python are bad enough; the kids (some of whom are in their 30s or 40s) who think just being angry and indignant and spouting over-the-top belabored-metaphor insults at every petty thing they can think of should be subdued with shovels and forced to watch Care Bears Clockwork Orange style.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Moxie is definitely the key to the enjoyment of life.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Ricky pretty otm though, what I hate is the way Hicks (unwittingly in fairness) work leads to blind demonisation of concepts without them having even been thought about or dissected, like "marketing" or whatever. I can see where he's coming from with his hatred of it but lets face it half the people whacking that particular tennis ball back over the net at you don't have any idea why they're doing so, except cos it feels a bit punk or something. Same goes for the "corporate rock sucks satans cock" sketch, very funny once you don't take it on as a lifestyle guide or take it as logical genius. The part about MC Hammer is just funny.

The idea that Hicks doesn't say much is ludicrous, he's full of good asides and his timing and sighing and the parts you barely notice are as much a part of his skill as anything else. He is a very witty guy, even when he's not in full on indignation mode, too many examples to list.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't the first Tool album dedicated to Hicks?

Second, Aenima. He's portrayed in the album art, as well as being sampled for the introduction of "Third Eye."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The idea that Hicks doesn't say much is ludicrous, he's full of good asides and his timing and sighing and the parts you barely notice are as much a part of his skill as anything else.

It depends on which routines you're listening to -- when he's good, sure, but he had a lot of dud performances/routines, and a lot of them made it to tape.

Most of the stuff in the second part there -- timing, sighing, etc. -- is part of what I'm calling persona.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

High Strung is one of the best movies ever and it's all about hating EVERYTHING, but usually the angry comedian bit gets on my nerves.

Also, Lewis Black rules.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

antithesis = Steven Wright

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

But most comedians jokes are part of their persona, isn't the whole thing something of a persona act anyway.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

other antithesis: EMO

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan OTM, yeah, I mean, it's PERFORMANCE.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Emo, yes, but not emo, obv

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

But most comedians jokes are part of their persona, isn't the whole thing something of a persona act anyway.

That's what I'm saying -- there's persona and there's jokes. I don't think I'd separate them enough to say "one is style and one is substance," but it's close -- somebody like Kinison rarely had anything there except the persona. Delivery with nothing to deliver, like a pizza guy who shows up at your door with an empty box.

Hicks isn't nearly that far on the spectrum, but he's farther than many (depending on when in his career).

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i caught a fissshhh the other day. and i wanted to mount it.

but there were peeeeeople around.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan OTM, yeah, I mean, it's PERFORMANCE.

But performance is only part of it. If a band put on a great stage show, but barely played any music, much less well-done music, would you say "that was a great concert"?

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone else in the world besides me and Sarah and our small circle of friends seen High Strung? It is seriously hilarious, and the epitome of the angry comic turned into a movie where the perpetually angry guy almost gets his comeuppance.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

like a pizza guy who shows up at your door with an empty
box
but, he's just the delivery guy! surely the problem with that is with the dudes at the pizza parlour. Unless that rotten little delivery shit ate the pizza on the drive over, but then why would he bother showing up at all? For the tip? Probably. That little sack of turd.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

But performance is only part of it. If a band put on a great stage show, but barely played any music, much less well-done music, would you say "that was a great
concert"?
that's not what I was talking about, though. I was merely refering to the fact that of course comedians' personas aren't REAL. Just like Mick Jagger's persona isn't real, just like Marilyn Manson's persona isn't real, just like Michael Stipe's persona isn't real. It's showbiz baby.
Quality and depth is a whole nother issue.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not all just performance though, hicks has loads of routines aswell, he's not just up there ranting about stuff, he goes through it and cracks loads of jokes throughout. This is true for any of his big sketches.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Very little of the Hicks I've seen/heard falls into that angry schtick. I think that's mostly tied to his late-80s stuff, when he was fucked up a lot and touring America. I've mostly heard his material after he cleaned up and got big in Britain. There's elements of anger in a lot of it, but it's mixed with personal stories, or hope or sadness or even apathy (as has been mentioned, I think).

Sam Kinison and Denis Leary don't have anything but their anger/asshole-persona to go on.

Two more in this category - David Cross, who I don't find funny at all, and Chris Rock, who can be OK occasionally.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 11 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Sam Kinison and Denis Leary don't have anything but their anger/asshole-persona to go on.

Right about Kinisson, but wrong about Leary. Is Leary perpetually pissed off and cranky? Yes, but it's his material that's funny, not just the presentation.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Milo, I disagree with you about Chris Rock so strongly it isn't even funny.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Which way - never funny or always funny?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagree with everyone about Sam Kinison. To say "he didn't have jokes" is very very strange.

Has anyone had the experience of seeing an "angry comedian" bomb on stage? They usually turn on the audience. It's not pretty.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Rock is more than just an angry persona and he's consistently hilarious.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

You're right Dan, that wasn't even funny.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't disagree that he's more than an angry persona - but I think he fits into the realm of 'angry comedians' overall.

I still don't think he's all that funny consistently, or maybe I haven't been exposed to the right stuff (his records, mainly).

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

You haven't seen his stand-up films, or "Pootie Tang"?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

No Pootie Tang. Nor Head of State. He was awful in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, but so was everything else in that movie.

I saw his second HBO special, and it had some funny parts.

The funniest HBO special I've seen in a long time was Eddie Izzard's.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

bill hicks is an emotional comedian, anger is an emotion, he doesn't just do anger, his goatboy routine is far from angry but is the funniest thing ive ever seen bill hicks is the funniest comdedian ever
the other ones you mention aren't anything to do with him, not on the same plane not in the same ballcourt just no where nowhere near, bill hicks had it, first time i saw that video of his i couldn't beleive it, it was the first time i've ever felt someone famous was talking to me, on my level how i see things, just being straight
'oh, he's so irrational, it's not a logically consistent philosphy'
seriously, this is so off the point, it's an emotional not an intellectual response to things when he's doing that stuff you know, hicks is the greatest, hicks is the truth
obviously not everything he did was good, of course it bloody wasn't you could say the same of tolstoy or picasso, what on earth is that supposed to prove, no one has ever made me feel like hicks does, just the surge of recognition, oh at last, someones being normal, AND he's HILARIOUS, the funny voices he does, his timing, his use of language, he just destroys everything, i can't believe people are still trying to do standup in his shadow, how do these people justify it to themselves? hicks is the be all and end all...

― luke.., Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

An excerpt from the Book of Luke in the Bill Hicks Bible.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

ten years pass...

i was looking for something else and i found this thread and that post above about the greatness of bill hicks made me laugh so many times i thought i would bump this thread

"his goatboy routine"?

also, i don't really watch comedians, but angry comedians always gave me the creeps.

― La Lechera, Saturday, 7 June 2014 14:44 (eleven years ago)

Goatboy is an actual routine hicks did. Its not good.

― Οὖτις, Saturday, 7 June 2014 16:44 (eleven years ago)

smh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpEy-LYo3vg

― some dude, Saturday, 7 June 2014 16:48 (eleven years ago)

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