Tell me ILX, please tell me why Pujols' achievements appear more worthy than Bonds'.
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 00:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 00:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
I can see strong arguments for either Pujols or Bonds, depending on what you want for criteria, but I'd say the same for A-Rod.
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
I think Shea Hillenbrand was actually my early pick last year, but things didn't go the way I expected for him (go figure). I'm really not at all sure who I'd pick for AL this year. Manny or Edgar Martinez, I guess.
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
Sosa burned his coupons, as far as I'm concerned.
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
Kent = .334, .424 OB%, .596 SLG, 1.021 OBS, 33 HR, 114 R, 125 RBIBonds = .306, .440 OB%, .688 SLG, 1.120 OBS, 49 HR, 129 R, 106 RBI
I can't pull RARP but I'm sure you get the picture...
Kent gets the edge on the "meaningless" stats (BA, RBI) and takes the award. BS.
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
do not say francisco cabrera
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
See, I really think that's a big part of it right there, and it's why I sort of grudgingly shrug when Schilling defends pitching at the hands. Is it a coincidence that Clemens seems to do it the most blatantly, and he's in the AL?
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
there's a great pic series in a may 92 SI (bonds cover) of jay bell hitting the ball at kirk gibson's (the runner on 1st, where bream is playing defense) helmet and mad-cap hilarity ensues.
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― clouds, Wednesday, 13 August 2003 07:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 12:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
Eckersley won in 1990.
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
Do you pronounce this like "Pooge"?
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
Bonds has 77 RBI/314 AB = .245 RBI per ABPujols has 105 RBI/446 AB = .235 RBI per AB
Bonds is a more effective RBI producer but here is the real kicker:
Bonds has 111 BBs to Pujols' 50.
This is hard to quantify but work with me here: How much more often do you think that Pujols is given the opportunity to hit in RBIs than Bonds does? And even despite that, Bonds is still more effective... see where I'm going?
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
AB = at batsRBI = runs batted inWHIP = walks and hits per innings pitched (i'm particularly proud of that one ;)
― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
I mean, if we are still taking MVP to mean the most important contributor to his team, then I think quantity matters more then per AB averages b/c those rest on hypotheticals.
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
thanks for that gygax, why don't they just call them walks then?
― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 15:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― ModJ, Wednesday, 13 August 2003 15:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
The only thing Pujols has going for him in this debate is playing time. The playing time argument may be a good one -- Pujols has like 70 more plate appearances than Bonds. If you add 70 PA of Marvin Benard production to Bonds' stats I'm not sure who would come out on top.
― Kris (aqueduct), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Cue the sun."
― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
Having either a weird pitch, oddball windup or a strange set of habits on the mound will always get press coverage.
― earlnash, Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
with earlnash's 2nd claim, al hrabosky may be my favorite pitcher ever (if not kent tekulve for trading in his amber tint sunglasses worn with the bucs for a rose pair upon arrival with the phillies).
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
(Tekulve gets bonus points for being 6-4 and weighing a buck o'five and having that dapper squared off Pirate hat.)
― earlnash, Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― earlnash, Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
2. Do teams use an exaggerated shift on right handed hitters? Is there a Pujols-shift?
― Leee (Leee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
Weber also has some funky shooting/skiing glasses which with his bald head adds to the rockem sockem delivery. I never saw him pitch until the playoffs last year and couldn't belive how wacky he threw, it was even more stiff than Dibble, which is saying something.
Mark Grace pitched clean up in a blowout last year for the Diamondbacks and he was doing the "Mr. Angryface" thing with most of his pitches. Some rookie took him for yard and Grace had a funny quote about how embarressing your first major league home run would come off of "Mark Grace".
― earlnash, Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
why?
the giants w/o Bonds = the detroit tigers
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 August 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 18 August 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― ModJ, Monday, 18 August 2003 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
he won't, but even if, does he deserve it?
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 18 August 2003 19:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Monday, 18 August 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Bill Mueller's #1 Fan (Leee), Monday, 18 August 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 August 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
MVP
― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 08:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 22 August 2003 10:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
Even without going into hypotheticals Bond's EQR is still a higher percentage of the Giants' overall run production than Pujols', and Bonds has almost 100 more total bases than Pujols in 75 fewer plate appearances. Ironically for a power hitter he's creating a ton of run opportunities for an otherwise weak offensive team. Pujols' performance with RISP is awesome but could be made up for more easily by the rest of the Cardinals' lineup.
― chester (synkro), Friday, 22 August 2003 15:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
1 Albert Pujols, StL 318 2 Todd Helton, Col 305 3 Preston Wilson, Col 282 4 Gary Sheffield, Atl 277 5 Luis Gonzalez, Ari 2566 Mike Lowell, Fla 255 7 Jim Thome, Phi 2508 Richie Sexson, Mil 249 9 Barry Bonds, SF 246 Andruw Jones, Atl 246
― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
(doh, i had their pages open in two different browser windows and mixed 'em up).
― chester (synkro), Friday, 22 August 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
i'm coming around to Leee's POV here: would Pujols be intentionally walked with runners on 1st/3rd with only one out? how come teams don't radically alter their defense when Pujols comes up? et cetera.
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 21:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 23 August 2003 17:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 23 August 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 23 August 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
from 7/12-8/21 Pujols got a hit in each game he played; however, during that same time period Bonds put up better numbers:
Pujols .389/.462/.712 OPS 1.174, 8HRBonds .408/.591/.895 OPS 1.486, 10 HR
it's neato that Pujols got a hit in 30 consecutive games, but Bonds also reached base in all of his games played in the same time period. In fact, the last time Bonds didn't reach base was 6/25 and he's only played 4 games this year where he didn't reach base.
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 5 September 2003 15:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
Even the last place team (Brewers or Reds- both only 12.5 behind STL) in Pujols' division wouldn't give Al 3 free-passes...
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 04:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
plus i never knew shef said that! key razay.
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 18:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 22:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 23:17 (twenty-one years ago) link