i have a question about antibiotics

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my doctor said that "confusion of pollution is a delusion", he said that there's a perception that antibiotics overwhelms bacteria, keeping cuts infection-free, but that no studies have ever shown a measurable difference in the rate of infection when using antibiotics

in fact, he said, irrigation of the wound is the only thing that shows measurable results (i.e. Washing It Real Good with water)

so why did he give me a prescription for them anyway?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

http://wwwihm.nlm.nih.gov/ihm/images/A/24/137.jpg

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the quack doctor on the right.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Because a pharmaceutical company rep promised him a golf vacation if he wrote out a few more scripts? More likely it's because he had to, that is he might've been seen as negligent if he didn't, even if he knew it wasn't likely to have any real benefit. Doctors do stuff like that, the bastards.

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, if i take them i can't drink

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Your doctor is the only one who knows why. However, if I were guessing, I'd guess that bacteria are happy-go-lucky organisms who just can't stay put in a perfectly good wound, but must always go exploring for greener pastures, leading to unfortunate conditions like septicemia, which a prophylatic dose of antibiotics might prevent. The advice about irrigating your wound was probably the doctor's way to convince you to irrigate your wound.

― Aimless, Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"confusion of pollution is a delusion"

Is your physician Dr. Seuss?

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Aimless he was v serious about the benefits of irrigation vs antibiotics! It wasn't to convince me because I'm not even allowed to put water on it for the next 5 days while it's in the steri-strip (fancy band-aid)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(I would say to avoid antibiotics unless you see the cut is getting infected. Otherwise you are screwing over the rest of mankind by creating more resistant viruses, you selfish bastard.)

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I, with zero medical training and little experience of anti-biotics, would agree with bnw. But please don't think this constitues advice.

― Mark C (Mark C), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i trust you guys, man, this is Science!!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I suggest the use of leeches. Please think this constitutes advice.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Do we have an MD on ILX?

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

So, if I understand the situation correctly, your doctor emphasized that the only course of action that works is under no circumstances the course of action you are to follow? Sounds like a bad case of suppurating asshat to me.

― Aimless, Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a doctor of Sexology, with my PhD in Getting it On. My thesis was an extended study of the science of Hot Monkey Love. How may I assist you today?

― NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Tracer, what happened? How did you get a would that needs irrigating?

― rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I've got the shits, Dr Nick. Is there anything you can put up there to stop them?

― Mark C (Mark C), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you like to borrow some of this hose-pipe I just happen to have to hand?

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Tracer, maybe he just knows about your drinking problem and is trying to trick you into stopping via use of placebo medicine?

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I have bacterial conjunctivitis at the moment. Prescribed a topical antibiotic - Fusidic Acid - by Dr Mumblecrossly. Am a little concerned about putting acid drops into my eyes. Sounds like a rock 'n' roll solution, though. I'd go with the drugs.

― Matt Thurgood (Matt T), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i am firmly anti antibiotics. just bleed yourself, silly

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

check the "101 household injuries" thread, rosemary

Aimless, we did irrigate the wound, good n plenty, THEN he wrapped it up. you can't keep irrigating it every day because it would never heal or close up!

name of the prescribed antibiotic: "augmentin"

i was bleeding myself silly, Emilymv; when we got to it it started bleeding again like a motherfucker, blood just pouring out, and my doc essentially said "just bleed yourself, silly, i'll be right back" but i got lightheaded looking at all that blood and had to get back in my bed, and they wrapped it up again. when he returned he looked at me like "wtf?" and i was like, sorry doc, i couldn't hold it together. he said that he sometimes forgets people have a problem with seeing their own blood rush out of their bodies. "thanks for making it back to the bed though. some people just conk out on the floor. makes me look bad."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha I like how the doctor said that though, like it's kind of weird to have a problem with watching blood rush out of your body. "God, you freak, hold it together man, what the fuck!"

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I also like how "makes me look bad" was the overriding concern there.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Tracer Hand accidentally ended up on the set of Scrubs to get treatment, actually.

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha the funniest exchange was between the X-ray guy and my doctor -

X-Ray Guy: "What about Chandler?"
Doc: "It's MISTER. MISTER Chandler. That's his last name."
X-R G: "Mister's his last name??"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

You made that up.

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

You CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP. X-Ray Guy knew he was being funny, though. Dude, these guys are sharp.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Antibiotics address bacteria, not viruses (I think bnw had mentioned viruses). It seems that a lot of doctors prescribe antibiotics just to prescribe something. Ignorant patients that want antibiotics for everything put lots of pressure on docs (as well, of course, as the drug companies putting on the pressure), and so they're prescribed altogether too indescriminately. A roommate of mine somehow had a stockpile of antibiotics that she popped every time she had the fucking sniffles. It's not like they would have even helped her, seeing that they affect bacterial, not viral, infections. This really pisses me off because it's just ignorant and stupid, and as bnw said, it encourages mutation, which leads to resistant bacteria that become increasingly difficult to treat. And that leads to all sorts of unneccessary misery. (I just had to have my little rant.)

If you have your wound dressed up in such a way that regular irrigation isn't advisable, it's reasonable that antibiotics were prescribed, however. I can see your doctor's point, though--generally, wounds will do just fine as long as they're kept very clean to prevent infection.

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~oneiros/ilx/anick.bmp
"Hello everybody! Whoa, you've got a cut on your finger! Looks like you're going to get cut cancer if I don't spring into action! Here, leave your wallet in my hand then squeeze all your blood out onto the floor! I'll go get the janitor and a body bag!"

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

very sensible, JuliaA, thank you x100000

dr nick rules

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I never paid any attention when doctors told me not to drink while prescribing antibiotics. I'm still alive so I guess it didn't kill me.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Or did it?

― NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Blah. I've taken so many damn anti-biotics. My current doctor made me get all sorts of horrible tests and x-rays and then was just like, "Well, we didn't see anything interesting, so just take antibiotics EVERY DAY." And I says to him, I says, "I've heard that's not such a good idea. Can't my body become resistant to the antibiotics? Then what will we do?" He says to me, "This is all we can do. If you take the antibiotics, they will help you for a while at least. Wouldn't that be nice? And if you get sick anyway, just take these other anti-biotics. Here is a lifetime worth of pills. Bye."
*sigh*

― Sarah McLUsky (coco), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Your doctor is an idiot. "These will help"="My patients complain if I don't give them some kind of pills". I mean, come on, if he feels compelled to prescribe something, he might as well give you something *fun*.

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to be prescribed margaritas and chocolate.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"Here Sarah, take this prescription to the animal shelter. A kitty a day OR YOU MAY DIE."

― 1-800-DOCTORB (Leee), Thursday, 21 August 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Oh and remember, the kittens are suppositories."

― 1-800-DOCTORB (Leee), Thursday, 21 August 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha

But seriously, folks. What do we know about antibiotics? Could they be part of Satan's plan?

― Sarah MCLusky (coco), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Some antibiotics are fine with alcohol. You should check which (though obv if your doctor tells you not to drink on them then that's fairly unambiguous)

Also, the pill is very unlikely to be affected if you're on antibiotics - the doctors I've spoken to say that if someone on the pill and antibiotics has sex and comes to them for the morning after pill, they don't prescribe it. There's a small risk, apparently, that the bacteria in the gut that would break down the oral contraceptive won't be functioning properly - the antibiotic and the pill themselves don't have any effect on each other.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I was actually just about to ask that question, Mark, thank you.

― Ally-zay (mlescaut), Friday, 22 August 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

NB they still recommend you use other forms of contraceptive to be on the safe side.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark, really? Because basically everything I've ever read about is says "if you are on the pill and are taking antibiotics, use a back form of contraception just in case"

(XPOST, oops)

― rosemary (rosemary), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I was gonna ask that too, because I take the pill and half a Bactrim pill every night and I was thinking maybe the antibiotics sort of cancel out the pills. So, yeah, then I wouldn't get a kidney infection, but instead I'd get a baby. NO!!!

― Sarah McLUsky (coco), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Some quick interweb research suggest the main culprit is Rifamprin as well as maybe Amoxicillin, Metronidazole, Tetracycline, Cephalexin, Erythromycin, and Isoniazid. (ha, I bet the Erythromycin is on there because you're constantly vomiting when you take it)

― rosemary (rosemary), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait, Tetracycline is anti-pill? Fuck.

― Ally-zay (mlescaut), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Creating more resistant viruses is only one problem. The real problem is that antiobiotics destroy a large amount of beneficial bacteria in the gut, allowing dodgy bacteria, yeasts and parasites to become more dominant. If this goes on for some time, the lining of the gut becomes damaged so that toxins and improperly digested food molecules can enter the bloodstream. This can then lead to allergies, auto-immune disorders and allsorts of other horrible shit.

― Freedom Dupont, Friday, 22 August 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

So, if you do take antibiotics, what can you do to make them less harmful while still letting them do your job? Does eating yogurt help, for example? (I just think this because I know it supposedly has good bacteria in it).

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yoghurt's not that effective - it's better to take a good brand of probiotics (acidophilus and bifidus bacteria). But you only want to take antiobiotics if it's pretty serious, and not for stuff like colds and flu (flu is a virus so ABs are completely ineffectual anyway).

― Freedom Dupont, Friday, 22 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr Dupont obviously knows his stuff. Americans - start campaigns against the overuse of antibiotics NOW!

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 22 August 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.acor.org/diseases/ped-onc/treatment/antibiot/bactrim.gif

Damn f'n horse pills!

― Sarah McLUsky (coco), Friday, 22 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i could see how long term antibiotics could cause all sorts of issues, there are so many beneficial bacteria all over your body protecting you from various nasties, and breaking down other drugs, and all sorts of things.

a lot of scientists and medical professionals already feel very strongly about this already, mark. though IMO the complications antibiotics can possibly cause in your own body are much less pressing of an issue than what can be mutated, spread, and thus end up killing immunosuppressed patients or whatever.

(holy shit, i'm getting organic chem flashbacks from that pic)

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Friday, 22 August 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

start campaigns against the overuse of antibiotics NOW!

Yeah, there have been attempts at this and they don't seem to be going anywhere (well: they didn't seem to be going anywhere last time I heard it mentioned, to be fair). It was ... Time, I think, that did a follow-up story? They'd run a cover story on the overprescription of antibiotics, and then either they or Mother Jones followed it up a year later with a little graph showing that prescription hadn't gone down at all per capita in the time following the article. Everyone wants other people to stop using antibiotics, but continues using them themselves.

(And yesterday I had to go to an entirely different store to find non-Ivory bar soap that wasn't antibacterial; nevermind the antibacterial handbars on the grocery carts and so on.)

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 22 August 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the two or three times in my life I've tried taking either antibiotics or the pill (morning-after form), I've puked my guts out. They seem to be only effective as an emetic. I have sworn off all non-recreational drugs.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 22 August 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad I'm not the only paranoid who avoids anti-bacterial soap.

― Leee (Leee), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i like when you have a big cut and you put your finger underwater and you can see the blood spurting out in little pulsating gushes.

i've never been prescribed antibiotics as a preventative, only as something to help cure an existing infection, a bad flu, etc.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 22 August 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

As far as I know, I've only been given antibiotics preventatively twice -- both times for surgery. I'm not sure if they were necessary during my wisdom tooth extraction; they convinced me they were because of the presence of bacteria in the mouth and the expected length of time the surgery would take (and the dentist was not willing to do the surgery without antibiotics). For my gallbladder surgery, they weren't positive whether or not I already had an infection from the gallbladder having gone untreated for six or seven months.

But I always ask so many questions about anything they prescribe and am clearly so reluctant to take anything that it probably makes it clear that prescribing me an antiobiotic isn't going to make me feel better.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

haha okay I've just remembered, it's "SOLUTION to pollution is delusion", sorry for the "confusion."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 23 August 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

back to the original post:
Your doctor's claim: 1. define "measurable"
Your Rx: 2. he didn't want to be sued

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 23 August 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

I was just prescribed antibiotics for a sinus infection (which my doctor, by the way, never actually diagnosed -- I just told her I thought I might have one, and she told me to say "ahh," and then she left the room and came back with samples of Avelox). The best part so far is the couple hours immediately after I take it, when I feel spacey and cold and depressed. Of course, I have to put up with this for 10 days now, regardless of if my sinuses feel better or not.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

haha kitten suppositories!

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a doctor who was reluctant to prescribe antibiotics. I became sick and suffered through a month of painful nonsense before I demanded some. I was completely better in 24 hours (turned out to be a staph infection). I don't even want to go into how bad it got. He was like "maybe you have AIDS... maybe you're diabetic... do you use Heroin?" It was insane. This anti-antibiotic rhetoric can go too far.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

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