Pedophile priest killed by neo-Nazi prison inmate!!!!!

"I was killed by a neo-Nazi prison inmate!"

as for father gaughan: in prison, just as in the outside world, pedophilia is a taboo among taboos. i'm sure that picking on the pedophiles is a way for other inmates (guilty of robbery, rape, murder) to distinguish their crimes as somehow honorable by comparison.

(x-post)

i'm going to take these issues to another thread for obvious reasons.

*orchestral flourish*

"Springtime, for Hitler, in Germany..."

re. white supremicists in prison: if you found yourself in conditions as horrific as an american prison, where you are systematically stripped of the things that form your identity and have to constantly assert your masculinity through acts of violence or implied violence so as not to be brutalized or killed... i suppose you could latch on to most anything. that's not to "excuse" the behavior or belief (if they truly are beliefs and not just attitudes--although the latter can become the former if pursued with enough seriousness) but to place it in a context. certainly there are many white prisoners who *don't* become white supremacists.

the idea of punishment has always been a difficult one for me to grasp. not that i'm opposed to it of course but the vagaries of punishment confuse me. some representatives from victims' rights groups said that they were unhappy that gaughan was killed b/c living out his life in jail would have meant his suffering and his death means his deliverance. i find myself wondering (emphasis on *wondering*) how someone else's suffering can redeem (even partially) crimes that have already been committed. other victims expressed happiness at gaughan's death, suggesting (like some posters above) that it was a form of karma or divine justice.

i think wishing suffering on others, while an understandable reaction to injustices committed against you or loved ones (or a cherished idea like "freedom" or "America"), is a weakness, not something to be proud of and to struggle to institutionalize.

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dan i completely understand your feeling, i'm not exactly dripping with love for these guys. but their being in prison and becoming supremacists is not an accident and it interests me to understand that phenomenon. if it is to be solved (presuming you agree that it is a problem) it is not through scorn but through understanding.

In the usual sense of the word, you'd be right. However, Geoghan caused others so much suffering over the years, that knowing he would hurt in turn, prolly gave his victims even a slight sense of closure.

other victims expressed happiness at gaughan's death, suggesting (like some posters above) that it was a form of karma or divine justice.

One of the beliefs I hold strongly is that the way you treat others is what you get in return, one way or other. I don't condone murder, but something was set in motion for all those people's lives he ruined.

but yeah, it seems in the u.s. there's this stigma that child molesters are lower on the totem pole than murderers which is just sick to me, despite all of the above deserving to be very low on the totem pole.

I think there might have been a misunderstanding somewhere. I wasn't speaking about the victims of molestation wanting to die, but the fact of Father Gaughan's imprisonment and now death and what that has meant to his victims.

Dan: after thinking about it too much, i think my choice would be "not to have any children at all".

I'm not sure what "you do what you've got to do" means. There's some divine force compelling inmates to attack other inmates?

Justice is served by sending child abusers to prison, and it's the job of prison officials to make sure "additional" justice is not meted out. I agree with D.B. that there's something notably unsavory about the way child molestors are given this "beyond the pale" status that permits their persecution by other inmates, and perhaps allows those other inmates a warped sense of pride.

It seems like a cycle of victimization to me, and that doesn't seem a good thing for a civil society.

as well entrapment and vigalente justice does not help those who are pedophiles or victims. It makes curing these people impossible, people hound them and commit violence against them so they will never seek help, and send them to prisions to be tortued and killed.

To stop this behaviour and to make children safe, is to recognize the problem and treat it with better and more secure mental health facilities.

with the current system this is impossible.

A few yrs ago I had a conversation abt this with a psychologist who had extensive experience in dealing w/ cases of child abuse. From what I recall, the percentage of abusers who were themselves abused as children was lower than one might expect (around 30-40% if I recall correctly). He said there weren't any definitive figures but he was skeptical abt. a strong causal link.

Unfortunately the lovely Gov of Massachusetts keeps cutting the budget which funds these programs. My wife works for one and its ridiculous what they are doing to these people.

25 per cent to 70 per cent of victims offend, depending on who oyu belive and what their agenda is.

priests are actually slightly less likely to offend, it is all about access, and the most likely are ameaturs(sp) or semi pros like boy scout leaders or day care workers. the one exception is teachers, who think they genuinely love children.

or one who has no shame about it and views his realtionship with a favourite, like a husband and wife (same caveats apply)

great thread, luv u amst