why are peopel always complaining about london?

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this is one of my pet peeves right now. i am sick of hearing people moaning about how soulless, impersonal, mercenary, nasty etc london is. know what i say? if you don't like it, move to brighton like every other fuck-up who can't make a life here so i don't have to listen to your gut-wrenchingly middle-class downsizing fantasies and if you're one of those people who doesn't and never has lived here, then just shut up... please.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

otm: london has no good record shops... london is rubbish... everywhere in the world is better than here and i only ever buy records when i visit my dad in norwich. in fact i am thinking of moving to norwich because i hate london so much. i don't know why i ever moved here in the first place. in fact, i don't know why anyone moves here. back to the subject of record shops - all of soho is dreadful, there are no good places on portobello road, the east end and brixton have terrible dancehall shops and i say once again, i hate it here... < / sarcastic sick-of-hearing-people-say-how-bad-london-is-for-absolutely-everything aside > fact is, if you can't find the music you want in london you are just not looking for it...
-- Dave Stelfox (destelfo...) (webmail), August 26th, 2003. (Dave Stelfox) (later) (link)

ahem...

For the record, I love London.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

oops I didn't read yr post properly there Dave, sorry

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

is this dave q bait?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave S has got a point, but there are loads of sucky things about London. Just like everywhere. Today's sucky thing no. 1 - the smell of piss exiting Piccadilly Circus tube station.

p.s. I love London too, and after 29 years here I ain't goin' nowhere.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

dave Q = "fuck man, this Garden of Eden is fucking shit, loathsome stinking fuckers fucking you in the ass and you all deserve to be fucked in the ass cos the Garden of Eden sucks so much and you're all ass-fuckers"

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

no it's not, i've had it all sodding weekend from people - especially yesterday when some borgeouis new-age knobhead i have very, very, very faint social links with was talking about moving to GLASTONBURY coz it's a "much more spiritually liberating environment" (i kid you not, more's the pity)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think UK people who live outside London react badly to the heavy London bias of our media and our government. I don't blame them.

I live in, and love, London so the heavy London bias of the media suits me very well. I think government could be more regionalised though. As for your comments about people who can't make a life here, Dave, they seem unnecessary and unpleasant.

Also, it's quite possible to form a dislike to places without ever having lived there. For example, I don't like Manchester at all and I would defend my right to say the place mings without having had to do the penance of living there for years to earn that right. For how long did you live in Glastonbury?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

There isn't too much for me here beside some decent record shops and gigs.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

there was a prog last night on bbc2 abt glasto's "much more spiritually liberating environment", which quoted a vicar

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree that the PArliment should be based in Chalfont St GIles, or Didsbury. It uses up a perfectly servicable building and plenty of nice flats in Kennington.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

What else are you after, Julio?

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

tim i spent a weekend in brighton a few weeks ago and i'm really not kidding, if i was a counsellor i would move to the south coast coz there's gold in them there hills. not that people really need it, they just want to pretend like they need it. one evening i spent in a pub, it was 90 per cent very recent ex-london-dwellers around a table. the conversation was like a competition as to who was the most fucked up by their time in the capital and how much better they felt now after turning their back on the place and "changing their pace of life" etc... the thing was it was just so horribly self-indulgent it made me really angry (only reason i didn't kick off was coz i knew they'd only say my anger was due to the pressures of london life). i mean, these are middle-class people who had reasonable jobs etc and could afford to live mnicely - they weren't exactly on crack-ravaged council estates or anything, so it could have been a lot worse. this further enhanced my opinion that london is good in the sense that there's a lot less time for this kind of vapid self-indulgence...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM about Manc, Tim-and I was there for 3 soul destroying years (not quite so much about the city, which I could handle for about another month if I had to, more about uni). Having to listen to anti-London crap from people who'd barely been tended to increase my ire-OTM about such sentiments being self-indulgent too, Dave.

― Barima (Barima), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Middle class people are allowed to have problems too, Dave. If it made them happy to get away, it made them happy. It's not your life or your business really. People who you overhear often seem like idiots, but it doesn't mean they are.

(I reckon 90% of the time I'd have shared your reaction too, but)

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

People sometimes have reasons for living somewhere that mean they can't easily move away. Or don't want to. It doesn't mean they love everything about the place. We all have to have a wee moan sometimes. I can *completely* understand people's reasons for disliking Brighton, for example, and I mostly agree with them. But there are personal historical reasons why I'm still here, as well as obvious objective things like the sea and the Downs and the Duke of Yorks cinema and the Evening Star... oh, this was about London wasn't it? Well, yeah, I don't particularly like London as a place to live, but that doesn't mean that I was miserable when I DID live there, any more than your average normal British (or American) grumbler necessarily is. It's just grumbling and we all do it.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

''What else are you after, Julio?''

I suppose what I'm saying is that i quite like to move someday to a less crowded city. There are too many ppl here.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

no more faps for julio!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"can't make a life here" = the kind of metropolitan machismo which irritates people from outside London as far as I can tell. London doesn't suit everybody, and you seem to be saying they should hack it or get lost and shut up about it.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Today's sucky thing no. 1 - the smell of piss exiting Piccadilly Circus tube station.

Most of London smells of piss. I still like it here though.

― James Ball (James Ball), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Moderators: Please rename this thread "London is for sellouts."

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, are you allowed to complain about London if you have lived in Paris/NYC/Tokyo/other major world city?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hehe. Dave you are clearly mad if you think that only poor people ever feel 'under pressure'. If people can afford to relocate and change their lifestyle, and they want to try, then why not? There IS a lot to be said for the simple life. Some of them may well be twats for whom downsizing just means 'I will come and sit on Brighton beach with my laptop and my mobile and annoy the hell out of you', but some won't be.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, there's a lot to be said for moving somewhere where you can walk to work rather than having to put yourself through hours of the fucking mess that is London's public transport system. I wouldn't do it, but I can see why people would.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

There are PLENTY of albs I can't get hold of in London, and after living here for 37 years I think I know my way round pretty much ALL the decent rec shops.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

''no more faps for julio!!''

you won't miss me anyway.

I could move to glasgow ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The biggest factor against London, from my perspective, is that it's the most expensive city in Europe in which to live (7th most expensive in the world, up from 10th a year ago).

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

''There are PLENTY of albs I can't get hold of in London, and after living here for 37 years I think I know my way round pretty much ALL the decent rec shops.''

yeah I know no FMP/Incus vinyl anywhere. appaling! ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I reckon Dublin's more expensive now, or at least it's well on the way.

― James Ball (James Ball), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought about moving to Brighton for a while and I still do, the only real reason is I'd like to be nearer the sea but not somewhere where I'd get bored due to lack of things to do that interest me and I suppose Brighton's 'London by the sea' rep appeals to me in that respect. I wish I could be more original ;)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Try Westgate!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Never said Londonium was a bad 'place'. Only that nearly all the people in it should be killed, and replaced with new ones, and perhaps not as many. Also to respond to the constant bleat of "why not leave then", well if you're having a painfully protracted bout of bloody diarrhea, however much noise it's making you don't get up off the pot until you're fucking done, do you? Especially if some cunt has your mouth jammed open and is funneling poison burrito milkshakes down your throat while you're doing it.

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually like brighton a lot but when london and its property boom earns you the money to go to there and start pricing local people out of the housing market and still provides the bulk of your work then don't complain to me about what a shithole it is and it evidently didn't fuck you up as much as you're saying coz it's still financing your "far superior quality of life" elsewhere....

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah leave the hippies in Brighton alone! There's lots of cheap houses in Wales, as long as you have a fire extinguisher handy it's really nice there!

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

What are these poor London-living malcontents to do if they have got rich from the property boom? If they stay they mustn't tell anyone how much they hate it and if they move then they price the poor locals out of the market?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i was just about to say moaning pisses me off, but i realise i'm doing it too now... and yes there are many flipsides to this argument, but i am convinced that i am right...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Paris smells much more like piss than London.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Hehe. Dave you are clearly mad if you think that only poor people ever feel 'under pressure'.

yeah, i may well be and the difference is that the middle classes enjoy it! i remember when all this narcissistic introspection and therapyspeak, psychobabble bullshit didn't exist... this sort of thing has killed the great british tradition of wife-swapping!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick, and anyone else, YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY OUT OF THE PROPERTY BOOM unless you move, permanently, to somewhere cheaper. In fact, if you want to buy a bigger/better house in London that's worth more than yours, its price will have gone up proportionally during the boom so it'll be EVEN HARDER to buy.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

exactly what the fuck kind of pressure are not-poor people under? (this ought to be amusing)

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

some things I'd like to see happen in London to improve things:

Tube runs until at least 1am daily with all night service Fridays and Saturdays (one train every 20 mins would be enough)

Pubs able to remain open til the wee small hours if they wish

Cashpoints at every tube station (they've got one at Ruislip Gardens now which is extremely good news - what a time to be alive indeed)

cut number of pedestrian crossings by a third (so buses are quicker) and build more footbridges and subway crossings where feasible - in fact build huge long underground walkways including airport style conveyor belts, bicycle hire points, skate parks and maybe more shops...you could have a whole new red light district down there too - hmmm i seem to be getting carried away - but a subterranean Amsterdam/Tokyo hybrid would be awesome, but if you spent too much time down there i guess it would trigger the rapid evolution of Morlocks

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY OUT OF THE PROPERTY BOOM

you do if you buy a house previously lived in by just two people and then let it out to 12 Kosovans and 36 Australians - kerfuckinching!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Stevem, I see where you're going with the pedestrian crossings, but subways are fucking horrible.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

'one train every 20 minutes' + 'cashpoints' would be excellent, but for the sort of people who are normally to be found in tube stations. i think all stations should have security staff with machine guns like in Italy

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

exactly what the fuck kind of pressure are not-poor people under?

stockbrokers to thread i guess

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Cutting the number of pedestrian crossings? That's crazy talk... last time I looked there were more people crossing busy roads than using the bus, therefore WE TAKE PRIORITY!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

What's the point of pedestrian crossings when nobody fuckin' stops at them anymore? Drivers have gotten really arsey since the congestion charge thing.

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Urban living is a bit crap SHOCKER.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

more cashpoints = more beggars i guess, but i've always found it weird why you get beggars squatting by cash machines - are they really expecting you to give them notes? it fucks me off cos i do get the guilt, maybe they're just turned on by being that close to loads of money? (excuse callousness, i think i am just making a joke)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Cities stinking of piss vs countryside smelling of shit - FITE.

more cashpoints = more beggars

No it doesn't.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 19 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

because they are wealthy and stupid, sometimes.

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"Outliving one's children is supposed to be the worst tragedy that can ever befall somebody but I'm beginning to see the advantage!" - Grandpa Simpson

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh ok. So we are only down on pressures that happen as a result of riches? That I can see.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah. Dave Q, you're a riot. None of your arguments work. I reckon you *should* try leaving London and going somewhere where YOU are viewed as the most privileged, inexcusable cunt. See if you become what you despise. Or maybe you are that already. That would figure.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

life deals us all blows but i find people who do the most moaning, pissing and whining are often the ones who should do it least if that makes me heartless, then... well that's what i am...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark don't give him any ideas, we've got enough problems down here as it is!

― Sierra Leone Visa Office, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

(most of which were caused by rich cunts in the Home Counties, but they gotta commute each day so give 'em some slack!)

― Sierra Leone Visa Office, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah. Dave Q, you're a riot. None of your arguments work. I reckon you *should* try leaving London and going somewhere where YOU are viewed as the most privileged, inexcusable cunt.

perhaps not privileged but i am often viewed as the latter...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: life sucks VS life sucks more when you're poor

― James Ball (James Ball), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Aw Dave, I'll excuse you :)

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark C's ire is never so intense in real life. Or at least it's easier not to take seriously.

you said "if they stay [...]". So, um, it was relevant after all

You said 'you don't make money from the property boom' - my 'if you stay / if you go' post surely illustrates how using the latter option, you can indeed turn bricks and mortar into cash (as you yourself went on to say). So I didn't know what you were shouting about.

In fact, you don't even have to stay. You could rent out a room (or the whole place entirely and rent somewhere cheaper for yourself) and be in a much better financial position than you'd be without your flat. Stop trying to pretend it's a valueless asset!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

And stop being difficult! Yes, of course you can do that, IF you're in a position to do that. Ack.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's be fwiends. I'm going to start a thread about love songs.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

this is what i'm talking about - that property sub-topic was the classic example of the none-existent middle-class gripe. "oh woe are we - our house is worth nothing and it's going to be so hard to buy a bigger one in Crouch End, close to little Hermione-Skye and Rupert's private schools. london, such a cruel and unusual punishment - let's move to brighton and 'improve our quality of life', after all this place is soooo stressful." bollocks, your lucky to own a house and not live in a rat-infested shithole full of smack addicts in birkenhead...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's evolve!

― Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Bullshit, Dave. The response was based on the assertion that the property boom has made rich people richer, and for most people who don't want to move areas but want to buy bigger/nicer houses, the property boom has had the opposite effect. Which, if you have three rapidly growing kids in a small flat miles away from school and shops etc. may actually cause some suffering. Whether this counts as suffering compared to poor starving afwican childwen, see other thread.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

THESE ARE NOT REAL PROBLEMS!!!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark C is a thoroughly decent chap IRL. I wish he would calm down a bit when posting on ILX.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

besides this thread was intended to find out why people are always complaining about london when, in fact, it's not such a bad place, not an examination of suffering or a place to discuss the trials of comfortable middle-class life.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes they are, Dave. Are you middling class or aspiring to be middle class? I'm willing to bet it's one of the two.

RickyT - if a misanthropic old smackhead moans every fucking day, it's fine. If I do it, I should calm down? Fuck ILE's double standards. Inverted snobbery suxors.

(x-post - and yes, I agree, that's why I started the other thread)

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Where'd these 3 kids come from, a basket on their front step one day?

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

??? Are you so fucking clueless? No, of course, this is ILE, you get your kicks from pissing people off.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm pretty excited to live in London. Most people get jealous when they hear that I am moving there in two weeks. But maybe London, and the UK as a whole, is romanticized among Americans.

― Mandee, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Which neatly ties into Dave's thread realignment! Most of the people who complain about London appear ignorant of the fact that being a somewhat dynamic environment it has a habit of changing on them, meanwhile they merrily made all these plans accomodating nobody but themselves and then raise holy hell whenever these depressingly inevitable changes occur. Which accounts for about 99% of ppl writing to the paper etc about changing traffic patterns and re-zoning etc because "*I* decided to start populate my homestead with my brood right fuckin' HERE and the bastards are changing the catchment area!!" Like they're in the outback of Australia and they can do whatever they fuckin' want whenever they want! Except if they really lived there they wouldn't have all those fantastic networking opportunities. "YOU can have it ALL!!!"

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark, my wishing you'd calm down has nothing to do with any moaning.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i am from a working-class family, have a decent education, earn a decent living, travel quite a bit, like decent food and even enjoy films with fucking subtitles - make of that what you will. however, you won't catch me saying what a hard time i have or how i hate london coz there's "it's just so impersonal and soulless". i owe the nice life i have now to the place - plus i am overworked, have to travel to work and endure all these other terrible hardships...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

That's good then. I'm not suggesting every rich etc. person has the right to whine and everyone else is obliged to listen. I'm just saying that their problems shouldn't be scorned just ebcause they have other things going for them.

Point taken, Richard.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

what on earth are you talking about mark. rich people can become poor overnight if they like. poor people cannot become rich. you have a £250,000 pound flat, most people here are poor and renting, perhaps you would like to swap positions with them, i'm sure most of us would swap renting for being the owner of a £250,000 flat. if we didnt like our new lives, perhaps we could swap back (though you would have a hard job getting the keys back thats for sure)

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i tht you only had two sets of keys between three anyway gareth?

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Was anyone else amused to see Momus popping up on this thread, amazingly without becoming the lightning conductor of everyone's righteous ire?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

rich people's problems are off less a magnitude than those of the poor because many of life's difficulties CAN be solved by throwing money at them. if your love life is a mess, someone's died etc then obv thi can't be changed but the circumstances in which you suffer will be far more comfortable than someone who can't afford to feed their kids in the self-same situation... and as for the earlier fuckwitted response about "poor little afwican children" well, let's just say it's perfectly possible to live in any major, affluent city and not know where your next rocket and parmesan salad is coming from, which makes me think that my worries are pretty damned small-fry...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

matt- yeah I thought he was gonna get going there. now that jess/blount axis of evil have gone off for a bit this is just what was needed.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Every time people are actually *discussing* this, someone comes up with the "where your next rocket and parmesan salad is coming from" (or, to be fair, "the poor starving Africans") line. It doesn't help your case, it just makes you look as scornful and patronising as the ones you despise.

Gareth, I don't understand where you're coming from, or what you're trying to say. Why would a rich person voluntarily want to become poor (certain moral or religious conversions aside)?

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

As I'm sure you know really Mark, that's the point.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

London's okay. I plan to leave as soon as I'm rich enough, wouldn't commute here, and wouldn't live in Brighton.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think he said 'voluntary': how abt if they lose their money on the stock market?

also: poor ppl can become rich if they win the lottery.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks jel, I'll make a note of that ;)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

emmigrate to mars jel.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

'it just makes you look as scornful and patronising as the ones you despise'

'the rich man in his castle and the poor man at his gate'!

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I am neither poor nor rich, and I think most people here are in that same 'limbo', but has the general rise in quality of life in London meant that the criteria for both richness and poverty has been altered from stereotypes of old?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Though, of course, the places along the Uxbridge Road are a virtual paradise, heh :)

Yeah! I'm going to Mars, how'd you know Julio?

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

'general rise in quality of life in London' WTF??? (altho the congestion charge was kind of cool)

― dave q, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, what rise? For middle earners, it's shit. 30 years ago, you were slumming it if you bought a flat in Notting Hill or Pimlico. Now a first time buyer can't afford a shared ownership in Leytonstone. Standard of living nationwide has gone up, yeah - but living in London surely drags it down again?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

The mean standard of living is higher, sure, but the standard deviation is a lot bigger than it was 30 years ago.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, scratch that, the mean INCOME is higher.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Londoners are so funny.

― Tag (Tag), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would a rich person voluntarily want to become poor (certain moral or religious conversions aside)?

as nick said, that is my point entirely. a rich person would not want to become poor, and if they are going to complain about missing out on half million pound houses, etc etc etc, then maybe they would like to try life as a poor person. bet there wont be many takers though

in other words, if they are going to complain, they are likely to be complaining to people who would gladly swap situations/opportunities with them, "hey if you're life is so bad, swap with me!". thats why you wouldnt get any sympathy from people, i'd gladly swap lives with someone who was just missing out on half mill houses, why would i feel sorry for them? why would anyone?

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

No girls at FAPs?

Matt is rubbish.

― Sarah (starry), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm one of the middle class types here (public school and Cambridge, a pretty good professional job, I own a big three-bedroomed house, albeit in East Ham), I don't think I moan about London because I really love the city. Even the moans about the transport need to go into perspective: in the two cities where I've previously lived, Bristol and Leicester, the last bus out of town was around 11.15, then that was your lot. My last tube from town is about midnight, then there are night buses, every 15 minutes on weekends.

I was one of those who always moaned about how everything was centred on London, and how unhealthy such dominance was - until I moved here. Now, any art show that I want to see happens somewhere else, I think that's unreasonable.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

ten months pass...

revive!

― broken twig, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

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