Weblog Response: Do You See?

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We're trying this instead of a comments section on Do You See?. If you read something on Do You See? at any time and want to comment and don't fancy emailing us, then use this thread as a springboard for conversation. We'll put a link to it on DYS? and update if and when the thread gets long and we need to start a new one.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Alan is wrong about Teachers. Tim is right about Rule the School.

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Emma seconded. Last episode was one of the most excruciatingly bad hours of TV I've ever had to sit through.

― chris (chris), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i think teachers is pretty funny, but it *was* best in the first series

(clue: like alan, i have been a teacher and many of my friends still are)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:17 (twenty-two years ago)

(clue two: i think everything is funny)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark you were a teacher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-0

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:18 (twenty-two years ago)

when i first started writing i earned milk-money as a one-one tutor in various (horrible) rip-off institutions, but i did teach one whole "class" briefly, who wanted to do maths O-level except it wz an ESL place

(this class was made up of a single large nigerian family, five brothers and sisters, aged about 17-10, and their work method was OLDEST DID THE ACTUAL WORK, second oldest copied from him, on down the line... so it was like chinese whispers... the 10-yr-old's work was a kind of abstract work of art, no figures or symbols discernable)

i wz k-rub at discipline etc:
"i didn't do my homework, i went to a club instead"
"cool, what music wz playing?"

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ah ha - we were in the early stages of formulating a theory that only people who had been teachers liked Teachers but as this was based on a sample of 1 it wasn't doing too well. Now we have more evidence. I only know 1 other teacher, I will ask her some time what she thinks...

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

my sample = 1.1 (ie my sister is 1 and i am 0.1)

i know several other teachers but have not in fact ever discussed this with them

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

We will compile a market research survey for you to do on them to prove our theory conclusively and once and for all. I wonder if the viewing figures bear any relation to the number of teachers / ex teachers / spouses or partners of teachers in the population?

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Teachers is like the cast of human traffic grown up.

It's not total crap but I hate the way they keep jamming in indie tunes and doing clever cut scenes, also the jokes are kind of meh. And does every tv show have to be about 30 somethings trying to get married?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm, I have to throw a spanner in the stats here. I watched the very first episode with a maths teacher and he was utterly scornful from the minute it started to the minute it ended. Mind you, he is a literal-minded soul: "No teacher would ever risk being caught smoking marijuana on school premises." "A sheep???!!!"

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

My feeling is that Isabel doesn't like Teachers thus capsizing the statistical validity of the findings so far.

With Archel's crosspost it's 2.1 to 2.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont see, to be honest

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Either I go back to the drawing board or I give up trying to figure out who likes watching it and why. hmmm I wonder which I'll choose.

But Rule the School - surely EVERYONE likes that? I saw some this morning and one of the teachers reminded me of one of the teachers from That'll Teach Them... I wonder if he's some kind of reality TV teacher-ho?

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

teachers is the only context i *like* indie i think: most of those songs are impossibly feeble as music out in the world but as the soundtrack to the lives of self-proclaimed stuck-as-adolescent late-20something cartoon-like losers it seems to work for some reason

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

they're all way too normal also, and dress too well.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha hatred of teachers is based on the twisted bitterness of ppl who HATED THEIR TEACHERS!!

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

nigerian family to thread

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I hold my hands up, I hated my teachers. Mostly.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

actually I have such an irrational hatred of my idea of "a teacher" it's beyond healthy

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

mark, that was the basis of my long teachers post!

Also, I saw Rule the School for the first time this morning. It wasn't all that. I think I may have missed the good stuff -- this was the exams and sports day at end of term, so a bit dull.

looking fwd to Ian Lee back on Rise next monday. no i am. really

(tenses in readiness for thorough beating)

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 29 August 2003 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom OTM about philmadoc in kroll - who was the real nasty one with the tache who usually played army blokes?

teachers - first series best.

kate lawler on RISE - cringeworthy

classic comment - 'jordan's not ugly, not like mo mowlem'

― gE0rdIEr0b0t, Friday, 29 August 2003 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

does anyone actually think two pints of lager is BETTER than teachers? i mean obv i think they are both funny (see clue two above) but teachers is way more stylishly made and delivered, even if the characters are less inventive (2PoL has great ideas for characters, unfortunately the actors seem to flub the delivery abt 3 times in 4)

sorry alan yes i magpied and then internalised yr insight: ps i do this all the time, in case ilxor hadn't noticed (not with alan, with everyone)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

hurrah.

Best bit about Power of Kroll for the DrWho uber-trainspotter is that K9 is out of action for all of it (AGAIN), so they cast the guy who does the voice as one of the major technicans in it. His voice is funny cos it still sounds like K9. Also John Abineri (Herne the Hunter) is painted green throughout.

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Why should the characters be inventive? I like to see a good two dimensional cardboard cutout grow merely because they have to make them do stuff ever week.

I did not see this weeks Teachers, but have discovered that yes, I actually rather enjoy it. I don't think I liked the early series as much (when I saw it). I think I am responding to it being more formulaic now - perhaps finally realising that rather than groundbreaking drama/comedy it is a very basic sitcom.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked this week's Teachers, though it seems to have drifted into some kind of Metropoloposex (what was that called, exactly?) fantasy world. My favourite bit was where he grabbed that fat kid and said "You smell like shit", to prove a point in an argument.

My sister is a teacher, if that is relevant to Emma's theory at all.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark S - 2 pints of lager is 30 mins long and starts at 9:30. Teachers is 1 hr long and starts at 10 so by the end I am falling asleep (maybe this is why I don't like it, does all the good stuff happen at the very end?). For being half the length of Teachers, 2 Pints wins.

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Please do not bring the horror that was Metrosexuality into this discussion.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes Emma, then it turns into CSI.

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks Ricardo. At the time I thought "B-but this is appalling!", but now I'm thinking I just wasn't ready for it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i don;t mean inventive week on week pete, i mean inventive so that SIT-COM Y is not simply merely SIT-COM X BASED IN A DIFFT BUILDING

the character-types in 2PoL are not worn to the bone (i don't feel): but they are not written up to either (esp.the girls, who are kind of increasingly interchangeable in classic MEN-BEHAVING-BADLY PC-misfire style)

(actually when did "daffy asian girl" become a comedy meme? cf also dinnerladies AND the thin blue line)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Alan Teachers is Wednesday before the SATC repeat and CSI is Tuesday. Have you learned nothing of TV schedules from me & Heat?

― Emma, Friday, 29 August 2003 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't hate my teachers but I can't stand this program.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No, it really was appalling N. I cannot believe it got made. Someone, at some point, must have thought 'good god if I approve this then my job is surely lost'.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

btw there is no shit sitcom i do not watch every week: sadly the we-ve-got-it-maid reruns have dried up

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i generally prefer work-place sitcoms. Just so you all know. Thin Blue Line is the exception (Sorry Mark).

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

N, it really was just appalling.

Scrub that. It was the mnost awful piece of turgid shit I have ever had the misfortune to witness, and I've seen some shite in my time. It reeked of a conversation between 2 coked-up trustie fuckwits in a Westbourne Grove pub who invent a concept because they have a mate who's like that, and instead of doing the normal thing and writing a wanky lifestyle piece, actually get CHANNEL 4 TO GIVE THEM MONEY TO MAKE A SERIES!!!. 'kin ell.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

exception = you don't like it or they don't do any work there?

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, that I don't like it.

ho ho. DYS has had referrals from google searches of "gorgeous teacher in Channel 4's Teachers" and variations.

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

teachers has definately changed, now it's basically the kurt and brian show, and stopped being quite so ally mcbeal (ie egg's (sorry, andrew lincoln, egg is your name whatever you are in) frequent fantasy sequences)/dawson's with grown ups, and this is a good thing.

the new geordie teacher is good too, although they haven't stressed the fact that kurt fancies her enough for my liking...

i am not a teacher, but my sister is...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Ooh - she is gorgeous.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Stop hitting on Steve's sistrah.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Have taught Secondary age pupils (i.e. 11-19) for six years now across eight (very) different schools. I've seen "Teachers" on three occasions - loathed it. Come on, people! No elucidation necessary. It's irredeemable shite.

― Matt Thurgood (Matt T), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

except it's often quite funny

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and it's not about teaching is it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 August 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

realistic then

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

On the sitcom thing note draconian BBC rules on length of a sitcom:
6. Nominations for shows which are not considered by the BBC to be sitcoms will be excluded. A sitcom is a comedy series where the same characters and actors appear in various day to day situations and each thirty minute episode is built around a separate story, e.g. The Good Life is a sitcom; Auf Wiedersehen Pet is not.

Doesn't Teachers fit into this?

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm.. I think it has to have a laughter track.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Like The Office?
The Young Ones was 40 minutes too.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 120 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I think that if the Mission (band or film) isn't important to interMission, there should at least be an intermission in the film where punters can gather in the lobby.

Deirdre O'Kane (the bank manager's wife) was probably as important a character, and she's fairly Irish (though less indie-adorable than Shirley Henderson). She's also been in two of RTE's most popular light comedy series of recent years, Paths to Freedom and Fergus's Wedding. Which is of moderate relevance because the people who made that have just made their feature debut, which stars not only Samantha Mumba and Louis Walsh, but also two Commitmentettes. I should go see that. Then I should write something to DYS, ever.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

She is pretty important but doesn't really have a plot to herself.

You loved Shirley Henderson's moustache, but how was her accent. Intermission is never as good as its opening sequence. Coo that Colin Farrell.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Her accent wasn't horrible. Dublin being a proper capital city, we've invented about sixty different accents for different parts of it, so it might well have been the real deal for a specific estate.

A plot to herself = someone to kiss at the closing credits.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Magnus I think you are probably right, but I'm still interested that there seems to have been a tipping point in fairly entry-level non-fiction usage: perhaps the basic feeble lameness of how 24 used it helped commissioning editors get over their ph34r?

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

That's David Walliams, not Peter Serafinowicz in Little Britain.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew that, and because it was sitting round in my bag completely forgot to change it.

(Change what, later readers say. Post edit ahoy).

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/see/2003_12_01_dys_archive.html#107158550359918995

"Colin Baker, he was actually quite good, perhaps"

NO!!1111! Vengeance on Varos is a pretty good high-concept story brought low by poor acting (Baker, Connery, the actor playing Connery's bird). C Baker never manages to create a character in any of his stories. He may be able to act - but not with the lines and character given to him. The centre cannot hold etc, but when all around is ruin too best pack it in. Not long after Varos is the DREADFUL Timelash - a script so bad that it specifically calls for a dull set just to emphasise the fact.

I think one reason ver modern fans might rate him is that he does the conventions, acts on the audio books etc. i.e. generally plays up to the fans.

He was much better in Time Gentlemen Please

― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Connery plus bird are rub yes. But Baker is good in it! The bits where he faces down the torturer are good, the speech on the scaffold is good, you get a real sense of him assessing and then mastering the situation - he might not be consistent (the only other one I've seen of his is Revelation o/t Daleks which is a fine story but in which he does fuck all so it's hard to tell) but in this particular story he's great.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I still hold that Sylvester McCoy was a good Doctor, though yeah, you won't find me actually watching his shows anytime soon.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i also think there was some small thing to mccoy and he wuz robbed etc

― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Vengeance On Varos" was great! Probably the best C.Baker story besides the first "Trial Of A Time Lord" segment.

C. Baker is definitely the most underrated Doctor.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

Independence Day = GREBTEST FILM EVER!

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 9 January 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes Sarah, I have seen Virus, and it stinks.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 9 January 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

the first hour of ID4 is good

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 9 January 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete I wished you had a mobile yesterday, so I could have texted you "ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIUMS".

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Keep wishing and it might come true....

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

Man, Judge John Deed is THE BOMB.

― Sarah (starry), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

Martin Skidmore Re: Private Life Of A Masterpiece
http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/see/2004_04_01_dys_archive.html#108230126763530259

> Even when analysing the composition they do a weak job, including
> missing the significance of the shape of the clouds, admittedly only
> clear in the better quality prints.

care to enlighten us?

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Structurally the whole game is echoing structures and shapes, and the clouds have some echoes of the main wave. Unfortunately none of my reproductions show this very well, but it was clear in some of the best shots on the TV show. They pointed out that a subsidiary wave mirrored Fuji's shape, but they didn't mention this.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 19 April 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

ta.

i enjoyed said show but i guess, like those dexy's documentaries on radio 2, that it was pitched at us beginners. nice to learn that there were another 45 just like it too (my desktop is currently some men measuring a tree with fuji way off in the distance). i didn't even know it was a woodcut until the show and was great to see someone trying to recreate it (was a good weekend for woodcuts all round - sunday night had a documentary about william morris and featured his hand blocked wallpaper).

but yes, it was kinda light. still, at least it wasn't rolf harris 8)

(actually, i liked the rolf harris art thing)
(i don't like the new freaky trigger comment mechanism though hence the post here)

best set i found was here: http://www.theprices.com/view1.htm but the interface, not to mention the poetry, is awful.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

As it happens, the one they showed with the lightning bolt below the peak of Fuji, from the same series, is my work desktop wallpaper at the moment.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

revive!

I hope most of you have been reading the FT's top 100 films, which strated sometime last week.

Was gonna revive this at around 9am with a PETE THE SEQUEL HATA!!! kind of post but he's just given props to the godfather pt II.

A bit too much in the 'lets smash the canon'-mode but I like it a lot so far.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Oi! "Let's smash the canon?" I'll have you know that this top 100 was scientifically reached after a survey of respected film critics! Admittedly the methodology was unusual but that was Pete's prerogative.

We established the 100 greatest records ever made a couple of weeks before the films one. You'd have liked it a lot, Julio, but unfortunately the bits of paper were included in tom's washing and are therefore lost forever.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

The 100 Grebtest Films is finally up?! JOY!

(Nuns On The Run woz robbed, obv.)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Its going up slowly but surely Matt.
Other contributors start chipping in soon too. As Tim sez, I can't help if the contributors started with the canon and got on to the rest. And canons are there to be rubbished. Methodology is explained away too.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh i think the Barang has nailed it so far, altho Empire Strikes Back was unjustly negated

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Empire Strikes Back has a beginning that rubbishes the triumphant end of Star Wars, hasn't got an end and has barely got a middle. Its rubbidge.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

b-b-b-b-b-but it's daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrk innit?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete: bitterness is never becoming.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a MIDDLE ACT, and it has character development, big walking tanks and bounty-hunters, dark tings a gwan - but i am fine with it not being included as the summary of Star Wars was succinct and the inclusion of sequels doth clog proceedings

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Star Wars (IV) does have the best closing line of any film ever tho

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

what do you think Chewbacca was actually saying on the medal podium?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

eeeeuuuaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh it sounded like

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Everything to do with Star Wars apart from the original film is a big old load of bollocks.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

so what is Chewbacca actually saying in that final shot in Star Wars?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Has the scientific-ness of this list been tested on proven by science yet?

''We established the 100 greatest records ever made a couple of weeks before the films one. You'd have liked it a lot, Julio, but unfortunately the bits of paper were included in tom's washing and are therefore lost forever.''

I'm sure I would've liked it Tim! *coughs*

I'm looking forward to other ppl's contributions.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm looking forward to my contributions, and to getting the list.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry Andrew. List winging its way now.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

the clomid symptom

― clomid symptom, Wednesday, 27 July 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

Not the kind of response I was expecting, got to say...

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 12:11 (twenty years ago)

[spam deleted]

― discount computer shopping, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

We get all the best posts on here...

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

Unusually restrained spam for once.

DYS is a great collection of great writing, it must be said. Discounting my occasional wafflings.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Don't call it DYS, Ned, since they are using "Do U See?"...

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

I MAINTAIN MY INDIVIDUALITY AGAINST THE OPPRESSION OF THE HIVEMIND

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:09 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

Troll!

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 November 2005 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

[spam]

― Vito, Sunday, 20 November 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

spam

― Norman, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

[spam links deleted]

― Herbert, Sunday, 4 December 2005 23:24 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

[spam]

― dede dede, Monday, 6 February 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

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