con art : a niche market's will to stay exoteric

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there's something that never ceases to impress me in people's attitude towards contemporary art : "what does that mean?" , " i kow to little" are common phrases between people that ,in other occasions ,take tons of picture of gothic churches filled of alchemic and philosophical allegories. so are critical overintellectualized legitimations for this niche market making people afraid of even approaching con art shows? why isn't there a will to explain that there's a stratification of levels in enjoying an ouvre? I could appreciate someone that just says "mariko mori rocks" ( she is spending a shitload of money to give a enlightening sensorial experience ). so why people isn't scared of commenting music ( even if they don't know about composition) or literature ( even if don't even know what a metaphor is) ?

francesco, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Theater's in the same position, so it's not exclusive to the visual arts. Also, look at the abbrev you used for 'contemporary', obvious I know, but that's how most people see it I'm afraid.

dave q, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, I don't blame the artists, it's the curator types that obfuscate on purpose and the gallerists wanting their intellectual kudos (note to gallerists everywhere: take the cash, please *be honest*) that make modern art seem so impenetrable. I've had curators I know who can barely construct a sentence (Hell, they can *deconstruct* stuff just fine, HI ESTHER!) criticising me for being too journalistic in my approach and/or being precious about bloody THEORY, which I can respect if the person can actually communicate in print. But they can't always.

See, I write about art for magazines and newspapers and I believe in a certain amount of clarity in so doing. Because you do just wind up alienating people with ungrounded fancy talk otherwise, which is ultimately no aid to the artist you want everyone to know about and appreciate as much as you do. So I tend to stop and define things I don't think I would've 'got' when I was 15: things like art movements, the cornerstone of a particular critical notion, etc. And I like to introduce comparisons to more 'pop' culture in much the same way.

And people do say Mariko Mori rocks, although I'm not one of them (she spends shitloads of money - being a member of one of Tokyo's richest families, she can - to arrive at stuff that looks like Bjork covers c. 1995. The future? Naaaaah).

I think the art world will have to be a lot less up itself in the coming years to avoid alienating itself into economeltdown. And people who understand and appreciate art are less likely to tolerate war and lousy politics.

suzy, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

suzy-I agree completely , the mariko mori example was a random one , I really dislike her. the funny thing is that comparisons to cd covers are usually made by people who work in the art to describe uninteresting art ( I don't think this is your case ). maybe that's why musicians like bjork or ,say, arto linsday are using contemporary art for their cd sleeves .

francesco, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"I don't blame the artists, it's the curator types that obfuscate on purpose": suzy this is SO not true, they ALL talk that weird garbage language. I wuv all the actual stuff uncritically, until they open their mouths.

Posh Spice more articulate than Damien Hirst shocker.

mark s, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

also what's with their being so needy to be down wiv pop (i don't mean warhol i mean blur etc)? It's like most of em are saying "Hurrah for me I'm a conceptual artist (but it'd be cooler to be in Elastica)"

mark s, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Obfuscation by artists really is not as big a problem as you'd think - most I know (TONS, dig) just want their work to reach people. If artists need to be down with pop, it tends to be artskool pop, which is completely understandable - after all, lots of group people were in college with some cool artist types. These links go way back to Beatles times, right?

Blur though are making way too much of a tenuous Goldsmiths link, innit? Someone should spank 'em for this. I had a foot in both scenes and can FOR SURE tell y'all that one Alex James didna have a clue about Damien Hirst et al until he joined the Groucho ('94).

Also re. Bjork: yeah, she gets artists in wherever she can. Like Matthew Barney who just left his wife/kid for her. Tch, girl power or WHAT?

suzy, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"want their work to reach people": yeah, i know this. It's a beef abt LEARNING TO WRITE. Applies to academics and left-wing journalists also.

mark s, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Phew! Glad I already know how. Which makes it *even worse* to have to sub prominent broadsheet writers - and I'm not dissing anyone here - who cannot in the course of working life, eh Mark?

suzy, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

tell me about it

mark s, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*Mark and Suzy run off to Filthy McNasty's - midpoint between his office/my hovel - and set the world bang to rights*

Grrr. If *my* parents were journalists I TOO could make maximum cash while having the brain of a small gonad, and people would offer me columns where I would make that Daddy, I Want A Pony face in my byline pic for the benefit of all others' Sunday overhang.

suzy, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suzy, I am interested by this: "I think the art world will have to be a lot less up itself in the coming years to avoid alienating itself into economeltdown."

What are the conditions which make you think this now, as opposed to (say) ten years ago, or twenty? From the outside, the art world doesn't seem to show many signs of slowing down, or alienating itself out of business.

Tim, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think ( Being an academic) that currators have a lot to ask for. When i bring people who say they hate contempary art into galleries or show them pictures and websites more often then not they find something that fasciantes them. Theory is often used as a three card monte call. But we need a langauge to describe art . Its a thin road.

anthony, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Two little notes:

1) I would leave my wife and kids for Bjork

2) Someone mentioned theater in relation to the above subject. The way people speak about theater has always confused me. Most theater, especially musical theater seems incredibly base, boring, and trite. Even for the pretentious, there is nothing particularly "high" or artsy about it. Most theater seems as interesting as a couple of Full House episodes back to back- musical theater being the episodes with performances by Jesse and the Rippers or that B-Grade Beach Boy who Stamos hangs out with. Those who defend it saying that it is important because of the actors, that it's an actors art, have obviously never spoken to an actor. Actors too, can be compared to Full House and characters in Full House. Damian Hirst and shock artists perhaps cannot and yet, they still honk.

An interesting footnote to my note: I heard that the Olsen twins grew up and are in high school and that they are total sluts. This is true.

klaus vk, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

1) I would leave my wife and kids for Bjork

But could you live with your mother in law being a packet of cream cheese? Heed the story of Space Ghost before you leap.

Nicole, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Most theater seems as interesting as a couple of Full House episodes back to back - well that's not really fair is it? to Full House I mean?

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's true it isn't fair. I do tend to watch it sometimes. In fact, that's why I was thinking of it.

hans, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

and yet, you still honk

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)


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