women who hate men

and, oops, do you think any male ILXor here hates any female ILXor simply because of her gender?

As for double standards, we are in a world where women suffer greatly from misogyny and men don't really suffer much from its reverse, so it would hardly be appropriate to treat them as interchangeable.

when women say 'men are so stupid', do you react differently than when men say 'women are so stupid'? do you think others do? should you/they?

when men say 'women are so stupid,' I say 'men can be just as stupid.'

I am sure that I am not always entirely consistent with that, but whether or not anyone else is is really beyond my purview.

Also, women or men saying the opposite gender 'is stupid' is clearly not an example of misogyny or misandry.

really, you think so? im curious to see if others agree. i feel like its pretty sexist and hateful but maybe im wrong.

it's kind of a behavioural generalisation of what early 70s feminists tagged "klutzing out" — eg men agreeing to do the washing up but then doing it REALLY BADLY so that it would have to be redone by the "experts" (guess who)

uh no. im trying to say that i think a fair number of men will talk trash about men in general in order to ingratiate themselves with women who have issues with men. for some its sincere, for others its not. i dont think thats such an extreme thing to think......do you?

"The truth is out. Men are much more trouble than they're worth. Sisters are doing it for themselves. Discarded males of all ages loiter in the streets, looking for trouble to get into and finding no lack of it. Male security guards shoot male football fans in Bratislava, male fans howl racist abuse and hurl chairs at each other, males train as suicide bombers, male heads of state stroll about discussing whether they could get away with another shooting war on the women and children of Iraq, and their male flunkies zoom around the world trying to talk other males into joining in. The Beltway Sniper turned out to be a man. And those "children" ejected from school for threatening to kill their teachers are actually boys. It doesn't do to say so. A kind of mad squeamishness prevents us from quantifying the nuisance value of maleness, possibly because if you actually tell men that they are damned nuisances, they are likely to behave even worse."

http://www.dadi.org/greer.htm

of course its bullshit, but why was it published? would a man be able to write about women as venomously and get it published? if not, why?

(written of course by a man, Ivor Cutler)

the world might well be a better place if women occupyed the majority of positions of power!

more to the point, it's a counter-argument

x-post hang on a sec

its true that some men have made my life a nightmare but if i ever feel myself starting to generalise about the opposite sex, i just think about the totally ace male friends i have.

*walks away, whistling. "...who can turn the world on with her smile..."*

do you think what im writing is hostile towards women? anyway there are some pretty hostile things being said about men these days. wed be better off if neither were the case, i suppose.

x-post with di: i have a lot of respect for your being willing to admit that. heres a question for you: do you think theres an important difference between your being tempted at times to generalise your bad experiences to all men, and a man who has bad experiences with women and is tempted to generalise to all women? i guess one of the things i wanted to talk about w/ this thread is that i think alot of people see man-hating as more rational than woman-hating, which bothers me a lot.

That'd explain a lot, I probably have mercury poisoning :/

http://www.simplot.com.au/_images/pages/brands_chiko.gif

crosspost. NEBD with motorcycles, then.

Chiko rolls are sort of like spring rolls, only bigger, doughier, and chock full of god-knows-what.

Seriously, I dont know what's in the damn things. Probably not cabbage.

Do other chicks now doubt my feminism? I hope not. Because then they would need to go die. . .

I often think men are very hemmed into their role yeah, but the root of how and who is responsible is so complicated.

Being a white middle class male is something of a competition a bit of the time, I remember a thread here about this and some of the rhetoric there was ridiculous, as if every problem had to be relative to another problem.

But therein lies the problem, namely that in the sense of causes, it is a relative problem I think. It shouldn't be treated that way in terms of its effects or its existence though.

What do people think of these new educational programmes which aim to establish a new masculinity?

The real problem is as a male liberal, personally I feel caught slightly between two camps, I can see how people could spend their adult life apologising or feeling guilty about actions which felt entirely normal and natural, ie being a man and engaging in the (percieved? awkward ground here) negative actions thereof.

I think the problem also is on a forum such as this one and in a debate such as this one any females present will be quite feminist, whereas males will not, this is not reflective of society. Not every woman is a feminist.

I guess what I'm saying is, is there any identity really for middle class white males? Was there in times past or is the suggestion that it has been lost or worse "killed by the feminists etc" total nonsense? And if there isn't, what are the effects and what are the solutions?

I feel simply accepting that the stereotypical male is a bastard leads to feelings of spinelessness and helplessness which I don't necessarily want to have, regardless of whether I agree or not. DOes this make sense?

It's such a complicated issue I could ask a million questions and I guess a million answers still wouldn't be enough.

I agree with what you've said but I'd like to use it to make the point that lumping ppl together based on gender (or sex, another thread has me confused as to wheter they're the same thing or not)
is silly.

I have far more in common with 'women' as a group than I do with 'family bashers and rapists'.

(But my guess is it's because of some
of the many differences between men and women
eg
ability to do it because of strength;
greater difficulty in controlling temper because of physiology;
bit hard for a woman to properly rape a man (I don't think there's an inoffensive way to put that really);
the family bashing that women do is often better hidden;
men more impatient;
etc
etc
etc
)

There's a link between temper control and masculine physiology?

Without being controversial (cos I'm not), what do people think of the female version of this "average man" strawman we're talking about. I guess I'm asking how informed or useful are the average females notions of feminism and the world in general?

If we're going to generalise about negative strawmen, lets give them some straw-women.

Admittedly the male strawman is more powerful and even as I write this I expect people might think I'm trying to "even things out" or something nasty like that. I'm not.

(PS:Hello Richard, your hair is like a raft of lemons, or a night on the high seas)

I SAID IS THIS PROVEN AT ALL, ANSWER ME
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald...), September 1st, 2003.

Sorry, I was writing an email to someone and didn't hear you're question...

Oh, I get you. :-)

Oh yeah, I did do that thing. (I've had to guess what 'perceived existentialism' is, mind. I think I know now.)
I wasn't criticising you though, because you weren't being essentialist.

My second post was qualified (in my head) with 'perceived', 'generally' etc. etc. etc.
Sorry.

Again I'm generalising and it's not proved but it _seems_ to me that (many) women are more patient than (many) many.
I think (well, I'm totally guessing actually, but it's a semi informed guess) that it might be something to do with testosterone levels?

Any physiologist or bioligists want to confirm or deny?

Hah! MEN!

I don't mind being wrong though, I don't even think it that strongly, I'm just guessing.

Worth thinking about though eh?

So there could be some sort of scientific basis to male-female essentialisms, even though what we've got on the subject is very much couched in 'The Male Brain is not necessarily the brain of a man, it's just, uh, typical of most men. Is all. But still!'. I don't particularly trust it, but it's worth thinking on, I suppose.

* actually, that was snide. I have no doubt it was a real study; I just don't like to have scientists I don't even know tell me I am mentally a bloke.