Guitar Testosterone

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This probably belongs on ILM, but I don't belong on ILM, so here we are and we deal with it.

A while ago I went to hear a friend of a friend of a friend play at a nightclub, just folksy-kinda rock songs, her and her guitar, and my favorite song -- oh, curse the luck I don't have a recording -- was called "Guitar Testosterone," where she sings about how, you know, yeah, chicks play the guitar and some of them are OK, but there aren't any female Van Halens or Claptons or Hendrixes or whatever, and the whole song was sort of a comic lament.

So for some reason I was thinking about that and wondered if all you music experts would agree? (Especially Sarah and anyone other women who are in a band or whatever) ... And what female musicians out there do you think kick the most ass guitar-wise?

― jewelly (jewelly), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

what was the name of that one woman who had the record on SST with the song called "Lick My Pussy, Eddie Van Halen?"

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh shit now I remember, it was Sylvia Juncosa! What happened to her?

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 03:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i once saw this all-female band called Hecate and the guitarist was widdly widdlying like nobody's business. not my thing by any stretch but impressive in a technical sort of way

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)

The field is too crowded now for anyone to break through as an exceptionally talented and innovative guitarist, male or female. There are plenty of women who are superb guitarists, but who was the last person to break through to the general public as a guitar wizard? The 12-CD people don't care, and the people who are obsessive abt guitar pyrotechnics are a pretty young and male demographic, so it's no surprise that their idols are plucked from their ranks (Satriani and Vai when I was young, dunno who it is these days because I learned that technical proficiency is not the be-all end-all of being a musician).

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:23 (twenty-one years ago)

is carrie brownstein an idol for guitar playing grils out there?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

The vision of a guitar-playing grill entertains me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Weber and Fender should join forces.

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't andy grill was in the gang of four?

(sorry for the derailment, honest)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

weber and fender sound like a lawfirm that advertises on daytime tv

― dengo matherton (dubplatestyle), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

dealing in burns and wire cuts, obviously.

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Jennifer Batten was/is a shredder woman, did "Flight of The Bumblebee". The thing is, whenever anyone (male or female) does shredder stuff, it's basically masturbation horseshit, and has nothing on "Brown Sugar" by the rolling stones or "Frankenstein" by the NY Dolls.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

or "I Love Rock n' Roll" by Joan Jett, for that matter.

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 03:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Xgau considers Eddie Van Halen's guitar playing to have feminine qualities, if I understand him correctly. You might make the same argument about the other male guitarists mentioned above.

I can think of lots of heavy guitar players who are girls though no obvious ones that "shred" as it were. But there's lots of girl violin virtuosi. Is there much difference?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Harlow to thread!

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 1 September 2003 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

You see, Violins are only cool in rock when used in the Josta Baby context. Other than that it's just self absorbed wanking.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Yahudi "Self-Absorbed Wanker" Menuin (sp?) to thread!

― hstencil, Monday, 1 September 2003 04:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Annette Krebs! She does prepared (acoustic-electric w/ contact mics) guitar through mixing board and volume pedals. She gets such range and depth of sound, electrical hums to crisp crackly stuff to waves of crushing static. She's awesome. Guitar Solo is a great album and beautifully packaged too.

Hmm, well, Joni Mitchell is considered great by a lot of people. I haven't honestly listened enough to give my own critical evaluation.

Lydia Lunch actually did some really interesting things on guitar with Teenage Jesus & the Jerks. See for example "Orphans" where the ominous semitone-stepping thing is alternated with scraping guitar noise.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Yahudi "Self-Absorbed Wanker" Menuin (sp?)

er? sp = Yehudi Menuhin

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't mean to insult anyone who rocks the fuck out. Really I just meant to encourage more people to rock the fuck out.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Monday, 1 September 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

carrie brownstein is one of my guitar playing idols, yes.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 1 September 2003 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

woo hoo! (mine too but i am not a gril)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 1 September 2003 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i also really like that lady from slant 6, and mary timony.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 1 September 2003 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

The Great Kat, you weeds!

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

second the annette krebs.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

rock heads still have prejudices about which machines people use, so they're hardly going to be ok with women getting involved.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

same possibly true of dance but at least it has female performers in its heritage and tradition, albeit in a fairly fixed diva role.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

haha not like dj culture, right ro?

x-post

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

lady bo and the duchess to thread!

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

To ans ronan's point: for most of the time the bands with these kind of prejudices aren't worth bothering with.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 1 September 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree sort of but in fairness the whole industry is sort of responsible, in some kind if vicious cycle way.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

um, maybe, I wouldn't know actually.

One band that has said nonsensical things abt technology are the white stripes and they are awful (to me, anyway) though I'm sure there's prob one band that I like that talk garbage abt it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

oh sorry I didnt realise you meant re technology, i thought you meant re women.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree in that case, yeah.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I (i is a gal, by the way we do produce testosterone as well, if that matters, in case some people don't know) remember a book I had as a young (13 year old) gtr learner, "Play Rock Guitar" I think had only two females in it: Susanna Hoffs, and Prince's guitarist whose name I've forgotten.

An example of a very drivenstyle gtr-ist who I don't know why doesn't get mentioned for her gtr-ing more is Kristen Hersh. Also what about the Band of Susans, I don't really know about them myself - barely heard them. Locally Maxine from the Snares springs to mind.

I used to play along to a Jeff Beck guitar licks cassette!
Surely there's some energetic/hard/(whatever) F gtrists in the metal realms (wish I knew more about it)...

Oh there's Leslie Q, she has a very distinctive and usually "hard" guitar style...dunno if anyone would associate it with "testerone" g'n'r-style etc...

― cuspidorian (cuspidorian), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Tara Key!!

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

there is a band of susans thread on ILM: search and read it, and get their 1991 alb (whose name i forget right now).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

'rock heads' like Lita Ford? Ronan I fear the Steven Wells article has made you deranged

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i travel the earth impaling people on a drum machine

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to play PJ Harvey's 'Rid of Me' at work, it made all the dance music heads scream and writhe and cry in agony! (See also 'Pretty on the Inside')

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Poison Ivy Rorschach! OK can we admit this thread is well-meaning but misconceived and go home now

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Brix Smith! (insert frat-ILM "Lay of the Land" joke here)

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck yeah to pj and ivy yeah!

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

(Sorry, 'misconceived' is a nasty word. There is something to this. Chicks in general don't help tho. They always make excuses, like "well rather than spend hours practicing we chicks learn to socialise!" etc., like 'socialising' is a 'good' thing. People even put that on CVs now as a legitimate 'interest' for fuck's sake. Unfortunately, this orthodoxy has now infected the whole culture to the point where it's now a given that perfecting a skill means exile from humanity for the crime of not assiduously learning the art of schmoozing and being the hostess with the mostest. But then, that's my irrational hatred for anybody with any social skills whatever showing. Like if you spent your adolescence having fun and friends rather than sitting in your basement noodling then you can eat my fuc)

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

dave steven wells has that effect on ppl!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 1 September 2003 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Motley Crue had a chick drummer for about 3 weeks, I can't believe this event wasn't more highly publicised. Guitars are 'feminine' instruments anyway. Those soft curves, those angel-hair strings. Chicks playing like Eddie Van Halen would be Aunt Toms. But DRUMS? in MOTLEY CRUE? Seriously that is Hall-of-Fame shit on any planet!

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

It is still worth noting that, except maybe for Joni Mitchell, none of these women are traditional 'guitar heros' in the sense of traditional melodic/harmonic virtuosity. Which is totally fine - I'd be the last person to have a problem with that. But it is still an interesting question to wonder why.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe they're all doing classical music? Some of those women can really rip on those violin, piano and nylon-string scales and arpegs and flourishes. Seriously, some of these chicks could bury any Shrapnel Records player ever born. Whoever mentioned the Great Kat upthread, word! Maybe there's loads of women in chamber orchestras who briefly contemplated shredding w/distortion, then heard the GK and thought "ah forget it"! (Katia Lebeque duelled with John Motherfuckin' McLaughlin)

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(plus classical music is more rockist than rock ever could be. one of my office co-workers was an aspiring DJ and I'd needle him constantly, "well you don't actually 'play' music so what do you know", and then one of the female co-workers said to me "oh cool you know music theory, I've been doing some intense voice-leading stuff lately" and it turned out she was a fuckin' opera singer and I'm like "uh, what's a mode, is that ice cream" etc., they look at us Rush fans like *we* would chuckle at U2 or somebody)

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

But how many female classical guitar virtuosi can you name? Liona Boyd is the only major player I can think of and I don't think anyone would think of putting her in the same class as Julian Bream or Eliot Fisk or Andre Segovia. There's tons of female virtuosi on other instruments. Don't know Katia Lebeque or 'the Great Kat' but will look up the former right now.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't know The Great Kat? You're about to embark on a voyage on the good ship Event Horizon!

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, just looked up KL on AMG. I will also comment that judging by the photo accompanying her All Classical Guide entry, both she and Boyd have v trad 'sex symbol' image thing going as well.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Just looked up the Great Kat on AMG. I am speechless.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 1 September 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Worship Me or Die - are we sure that she's not just Yngwie in drag?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 1 September 2003 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Yngwie in drag = Divine, by this point. He's been hitting the smorgasbord a bit too much

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't imagine why women would WANT to be going weedly-weedly-wee for hours like a rock virtuoso. I sure don't. Chords and simple leads are way more fun to play. Hell, these days I'd rather be playing bass. I dig repitition and groove.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 1 September 2003 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh c'mon I bet you've never even tried!

― dave q, Monday, 1 September 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

geetar = phallic symbol

if ya hadn't noticed

(I bet this helps not at all.)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm with anthony. i'm FAR from being a guitar virtuoso but i like the challenge of finding something subtly (is that a word?) clever to play rather than being a show pony. not that theres anything intrinsically wrong with being a showpony, i just think a lot of people don't do it inventively cos they're too busy going wa-hey! look at me go!

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

fourteen years pass...

SG or Rick bass?

― calstars, Saturday, 25 November 2017 01:53 (seven years ago)

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