Taking sides: Evelyn Waugh 'n' Graham Greene

special English Catholic edition.

hey kids! y'all just missed the fantastic international graham greene festival, held in my (and graham greene's) hometown, berkhamsted, herts. what you missed: some lectures, a film, some othger stuff. make sure to book your place next year, eh.

Hey, you stole that from me in the Lemony Snicket thread! Damn filthy hippie ...

Um ... I think I said Greene back then, and I suppose I'll stick with it. It's the traditional comedy vs. drama dilemma -- if they're both done astoudingly well, you pick the drama, n'est-ce pas?

Plus, as I mentioned in the other thread, there's Waugh's pretty distasteful mockery of the intelligence of Africans, compared to Greene's dedication to actually trying to understand and deal with the politics and culture of foreign lands, in a way that's unrivaled even by current fiction. He somehow gets beyond non-European nations as "exotic" scenery, and grants them an intellectual and logical independence they just didn't receive from many contemporary writers.

A priest once gave me a Greene short story as pennance.

While I enjoy both - and have problems - Waugh's attitudes, the fact that I find some of Greene's books impossible to get through, it comes down to this: The Quiet American is one of the best things I've ever read, and Brideshead Revisited is undoubtedly the most repulsive. For that alone, Greene.

I've only ever read Decline And Fall and Brighton Rock (both their firsts?) and I wouldn't like to choose between them. Decline and Fall is very funny. Brighton Rock is proto-punk.

Greene. I just can't get that TV interview with Waugh out of my head and I was terribly jaundiced and prejudiced by it. I can't separate a book from its writer, I'm afraid, no matter what M. Barthes says. I love 'The End of Affair' and 'Brighton Rock' and 'The Quiet American' and I'm looking forward to reading other stuff by him. Waugh - 'Brideshead Revisted' - tripe.

I have to side with Greene as I used to work for the literary agent who handled his plays.

Julia, that's a lousy reason. But I too would side with Greene because he was the one who clued me into this "literary theory is a piece of piss" when I was doing my English A-Level. If it wasn't for his obvious symbolism and obsession with catholcism I may well have done a degree in English which would have been the end of me.

I mean I generally find Greene's books annoying but they are annoying in an artful way. One of the few authors though where the films of his books are generally better than the books (they deal with the intesity in a better way).

Pete - are you being snooty about 'obvious' symbolism? I think that Greene's symbols have a pleasing clarity and simplicity, almost allegorical - the child's birthmark in 'End of the Affair', for example.

But then again, I was greatly moved by my primary school teacher's revelation that Aslan was an allegory of Jesus when I was eight. Make of that what you will.

And what's wrong with a degree in English?

Sorry, Pete. I'll try harder next time. What I really meant was that his plays are pretty good & should also be considered! We also represented other writers who were complete arses & I wouldn't side with them in a million years. Always helps if the writer in question's dead, mind!

Will, nothing wrong with a degree in English, but knowing now what I didn't know then I think it would have been a huge error for me to have done it. It also would have led to a different University, different friends and an unlikelyhood that ILx would ever have met me (not all bad then).

I agree withyou about obvious symbolism. I think its actually a good thing and something that most authors these days avoid like the plague. What is wrong with having a subtext, and then drawing attention to it with devices like this? I think this is why films based on his work are quite good, because the visual works on a different level (ie doesn't literally get in the way of the text) the symbolism in these areas are easily dealt with. Since the symbolism often parallels the introspection - I'm thinking especially Power & The Glory here - this allows the film an insight into the characters heads.

Aslan = Jesus. You'll be telling me people were decended from Apes next, heretic.

I swear to God, I hadn't read the Lemony Snicket thread when I posted this, I just assumed it was about British candy and ignored it. Dirty hippy - indeed, sir.

I'd haven't read Brideshead, but I loved "The Loved One", "Scoop" & the first volume of the ww2 trilogy (forget the title), but I'd have to give it to GG for "Our Man in Havana" & "Power & The Glory". It's not as simple as comedy vs drama - they did both.