How well-known is Jon Savage in the UK and the commonwealth, as a pop figure?

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On the back of a book that recently arrived at the library where I work, there was a brief excerpt from the book, and it happened to include a quote from Jon Savage, which made me wonder how much name recognition he has in the UK (etc.). I think that most people who might potentially use this book at my library will have no idea who he is. I already expect that one of my co-workers will ask me who Jon Savage is, and will once again be impressed with my knowledge of "esoteric" things.

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Quite.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

he wrote what's considered by just about everyone to be the best punk overview 'england's dreaming', he's all over the telly whenever paul morley's not available to talk about pop cult-y stuff in general, he's the 'party animal' in 'left to my own devices' by pet shop boys. my mum won't have heard of him.

― piscesboy, Monday, 8 September 2003 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

he's on TV now and then, less now maybe than a few years back; he's probably regarded as the most senior, reliable, quotable rock writer in the UK (next = prob barney hoskyns): sav wd have name recognition w. most guardian readers under abt 45, say, but not most daily mail or times or sun readers (=pure guess)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post — i do get the impression he's cut his TV appearances right back (he lives in a hard-to-reach part of north wales these days, for one thing)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

haha re the commonwealth: i have no idea

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Do Americans have a figure roughly equivalent to Morley or Savage?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got all his records.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Garrison Keillor?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

trife

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

(I have to admit that when I use the word "the commonwealth," I don't really know what the political reality is, or whether or not it's just a symbolic reflection of past British empire.)

Do Americans have a figure roughly equivalent to Morley or Savage?

I don't think so.

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: Do Americans have a figure roughly equivalent to Morley or Savage?

the self appointed Dean Christgau and Greil Marcus

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm fairly sure savage is not a household name in zimbabwe

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

neither of those two are equivalent to either of our two, martian

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm fairly sure most americans of the type mark described above have no idea who xgau or marcus are

x-post

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

xgau is the equivalent of YOU as wz proved by ilm science

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

(I meant Marcus, but get them confused)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

ha American popular music guru for the masses is Casey "I wear a knitted jumper and know all about the American Top 20 in the 70s and 80s" Kasem

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 8 September 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Savage also a sort of social critic/political commentator? I have read bits and pieces by him, but I am wondering if he would be taken moderately seriously talking about things outside of the arts, as well. Of course, from what I've read, when he writes about music, he is usually writing about a social context as well, so maybe I am setting up a false division. But would he be called on to comment on social issues, where music is not involved?

(xpost: At least Kasem had the guts to comment negatively on U.S. foreign policy during the 1991 Gulf War.)

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The current one too, I think.

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

There should be more rock critics that have names that sound like wrestler's names. The only other one I can think of is Chuck "The Klobberman" Klosterman.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 8 September 2003 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Jess "The Body" Harvell

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 8 September 2003 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Do Americans have a figure roughly equivalent to Morley or Savage?

Morley, no; Savage - um, maybe Peter Guralnick? I know their writing has v. little in common, but I'm thinking in terms of "serious respected music historian most NYTimes readers will have heard of."

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 8 September 2003 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

But would he be called on to comment on social issues, where music is not involved?

I don't know abt called upon, but there does seem to be a tendency for journos to be pummelled into having an opinion on everything in the uk and not being allowed to specialise in just music, or whatever their field of expertise is.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 8 September 2003 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

His name is familiar, but I instantly thought of the kid from the Wonder Years.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 8 September 2003 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I went on a trip to Aldeburgh a few years ago, and ended up staying in a holiday cottage which used to belong to Benjamin Britten. Leafing through the cottage's guestbook one bleak East Anglian afternoon as the rain swept in from Norway I noticed that Mr Savage had signed it a few years previously! He remarked on how much he enjoyed owner's home-made jam!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 8 September 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 8 September 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 8 September 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I think if you actually did a survey of under 45 year old Guardian readers, only a small minority would be able to say who he was. I'd love to be able to commission surveys like this on a whim.

Did Mark S ever say what he thinks of England's Dreaming?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 8 September 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd always thought Savage was the UK equivalent of Marcus rather than vice versa.
Now excuse me while I be a bit irrelevant. I read England's Dreaming and Time Travel (I think after reading about the latter in Select, not an especially culturally pervasive magazine)when I was 15 and I don't think any pop writing has ever had such an effect on me (cos of my age, I suppose), and I still find that stuff inspirational, for all its portentousness.
As a 'cultural figure' mind you I don't find him all that. When watching Live Forever I kept expecting him to say something fantastically insightful but he spouted the same glib generalisations as everyone else. His stuff In Mojo is deeply so so.
Has anyone read his Picture Post book? Is it worth reading if you haven't hitherto been interested in the subject?

― Myron Kosloff, Monday, 8 September 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Savage is generally a very sensible writer. I can't think of anyone better at writing about records in 'the canon' and actually making me want to hear them. (Well, I can - several of you lot - but not as consistently).

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 8 September 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That's true. He even made me want to hear 'The Betles Anthology'...

― Myron Kosloff, Monday, 8 September 2003 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"Mark S read England's Dreaming 7 times over when it came out wishing the ending would turn out differently" ":("

― mark sbot (Cozen), Monday, 8 September 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

''he does not understand punk I'm the only one who does and I WILL PROVE IT BY SCIENCE if i evah get my 735275632865 book projects finished first''

― mark s-bot (jdesouza), Monday, 8 September 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Incidentally, to go back to my original post, I didn't mean to imply that I expect everyone who comes into the library to recognize every name that happens to appear on back of anyone one of our books, but there was something odd to me about the way Savage's name was casually brought up without explanation in what appeared to be a book about teaching and education issues written at a popular level. It did not seem to have anything to do with music or popular culture/sub-culture. It did seem to have a mildly radical slant, but more along the lines of: hey, wouldn't it be nice to teach people to think for themselves and question things? I meant to mention the subject of the book in my original post.

Anyway, good responses. I don't mind things drifting to discussion of Savage in general. I think I first became aware of his names while looking at the credits on Throbbing Gristle photos, and only a little later in connection to writing.

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm suddenly in the mood for the second side of Heathen Earth. "Don't do as your told/Just do as you feel" in Sleazy's compelling nasal voice.

― Al Andalous, Monday, 8 September 2003 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

STILL pissed off I spent so much money on a damn Subway Sect album. We oppose all rock and roll, my ass.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 8 September 2003 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

more hottt mark sbot action pleeez!

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 8 September 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

christ some of you people know key mark s posts by heart better than i do!

the best part of england's dreaming (a book i like a lot, totally inspirational blah blah blah) is this sentence, in the discography: "paul weller continues to blight british music as a faux-hippie solo act."

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha! I had forgotten that line. Great discography in general, actually.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yes yes we out here in the colonies have also read jon savage.

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

[spam deleted]

― ***, Wednesday, 26 April 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

uh, lame. anyway: is that true about the pet shop boys "party animal" ref? how do we know?

from sleevenotes.

― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 27 April 2006 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

wow, it pays to buy a real record, huh?

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