Calum's Thread - US attidudes towards Palestine/Israel

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"I hate bigotry. I especially hate religious bigotry - fuck it's only a belief. I mean, if I had my way bigoted fucks like Jerry Adams would be locked up on grounds of their promotion of utter intolerance ("No I would not marry someone from another faith" etc etc - such shit). Therefore, I was shocked - over here - to be asked by a very unpleasant fellow if, being British, I was against Jews. Now this was a first, because I've never been accussed of any prejudice (save from on ILE and from that cunt Blount, who needs a good kicking) and have lived with, over the years, gay people and guys and girls of all different religions and skin colours.

"No, of course I'm not against Jewish people - why on earth would you think that?" I answered.

"All Brits want a seperate Palestine state that's why"

"Well, yeah, but that's because we're anti State Terrorism, anti-ethnic cleansing, not anti- Jew!!!! Surely as a Jewish fellow you'd know a thing or two about the dangers of ethnic cleansing and bigotry".

Well, maybe he did not. But I'm discovering, much to my horror, that some folks over here Agree with what Israel is doing and see a visit to that country as a positive thing. Is it just me or is this insane? And am I also prejudiced for saying I think kosher meat is barbaric and fully support the Scottish (British?) branch of Animal Aid for proposing laws to ban the practice?

I so feel as if I gotta hold me tongue over here as anything and everything is suddenly very touchy, even when open debate is welcomed over in Blighty..."

-- Calzer (calze...), September 9th, 2003.

This is an interesting point, if you went on (publicly stated) US government policy you;d think the US was in favour of a two state solution. I know the large xtian wackjob minority in the US think the jews should have control of israel because it will hasten the second coming. What is the general opinion and what do people think that Britain and Europe think about the problem.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there is a genuine problem that some people want to see Israel to fail because they hate Jews. A minority yes, and possibly an aging minority but nevertheless one that exists.

Equally it is very important for zionists to equate Israel = Judaism, Jewish weddings toasting the President of Israel and so on. This attitude can also be used in reverse to make pro-Palestinian = anti-semitic.

A finer understanding of propositional logic would certainly help here.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I so feel as if I gotta hold me tongue over here as anything and everything is suddenly very touchy, even when open debate is welcomed over in Blighty...

So he based his opinion of the situation in the U.S. on one encounter? This is why I did not take his question seriously.

― Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Nonetheless its an interesting encounter.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting, yes, but to base your opinions on it is ignorant at best.

― Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Not really. How many people has he had the conversation with. If the first one you have starts with open hostility then you would be right to watch your words.

I don't thisnk any method of preparing meat is any more barbaric than any others, except ones which follow rules set down in Conan The Barnarian.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It's strange how pliable many Americans are to stepping in with the party line, although it's hard to blame them (us) when you realize the almost totally overwhelming hold the current administration-force has on the most common means Americans use to get their "news"*, sources which more and more are used, not to inform, but to opinion-form the audience. Once I realized that, that not just are these "news" outlets not just avoiding true journalism completely, but their focus seems to be to drive home for American citizens what opinions are "right" and what opinions are "wrong"...which (hello ESCHELON! my name is Nick come get me) really isn't too far a thing from brainwashing.

*although I get the feeling there is a quickly growing number of Americans for whom this here internet has replaced TV as their primary-news-discovery-source...which is a very very good thing

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

doesn't that depend on what their online news sources are? or is it just generally better going to CNN's website rather than actually watching CNN (I do suppose yes)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Well yeah I had considered that, but the interconnectivity of the internet (news stories linked to original stories sometimes from another website, linked elsewhere, connect-the-dots, la-la-la etc) seems conducive to actually helping people find actual INFORMATION, whereas TV news has the audio/visual ability to use repetition (of images and catch-phrases in particular) so much more effectively.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

...more effectively toward, not just the shaping of opinions, but also (prob'ly more importantly) implanting the notion in those who can be swayed by it that disagreeing with the opinion-forms they are encouraging is a horrible bad demonic thing.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

And thus many fence-straddlers or not-sure-'bout-thats are encouraged to keep their mouths shut, and thus those saying the same things most repeatedly and saying them the loudest (*ahem* Bill "Sir Shout-a-lot" O'Reilly *ahem*) get to be the among the only voices heard.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ESCHELON is a real thing and not something JJ Abrams made up?

― Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

the large xtian wackjob minority

a number of whom happen to be IN GOVERNMENT!!!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

ESCHELON is a real thing and not something JJ Abrams made up?

I think this is one of the only things on Alias that is based on fact.

― Larcole (Nicole), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

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