debate! current MLBers who will be in the Hall of Fame

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A'ight now, let's talk. Here's a list of players that I think have at least a fair shot of getting into the MLB Hall of Fame. Some players have already achieved their needed stats, and some are merely en route. Feel free to add, disagree, etc. I'm bored and felt like rapping about baseball.

BATTERS

(most likely to most definitely)
Barry Bonds - no explanation necessary
Rickey Henderson - ditto
Sammy Sosa - probably gonna get to 650+ HRs one way or another
Frank Thomas - couple of MVP awards (maybe a third this year?), insanely great hitter in the '90s
Jeff Bagwell - crazy mix of patience, power, speed, avg
Rafael Palmeiro - the most stealthy creep to the 500 HR mark ever
Mike Piazza - amazing hitter, too bad about the defense
Alex Rodriguez - might have financially crippled the Rangers but might be worth it
Derek Jeter - a handful of World Series titles, clutch play, fine hitter
Roberto Alomar - spitting and turning into Alfredo Griffin shouldn't hinder his chances too much
Ken Griffey, Jr. - will he get to 500 HR? unluckiest bastard on the planet, should still slip into the Hall either way
Nomar Garciaparra - He's a great hitter, like Jeter w/more power, better average, better defense.
Ivan Rodriguez - amazing defense, not too shabby with the bat either

(maybe?)
Todd Helton - He hasn't been around for long but you've gotta believe playing in Coors for another ten years will make him look really good. or will it hurt his chances?
Edgar Martinez - Best righthanded swing I've ever seen. hard to say though, his stats don't totally add up and he didn't bust loose until 8-9 years ago
Fred McGriff - The guy has been about as consistent as you can get, usually hitting 30-35 HR per year and knocking in 100-105 ever since '87 or something. Hit his peak power before the power surge in the '90s. Should get to 500. First 500 guy not in HOF?
Roberto Alomar - spat on an ump then suddenly began channeling Alfredo Griffin. still a shoe-in?
Craig Biggio - I read some stuff about how he was the best player in the '90s, based in terms of speed, OBP, power, etc. Does he deserve it?
Larry Walker - three batting titles, legendary arm, great speed, MVP...and of course Denver and injuries. hmm...
Jason Giambi - The lefty Frank Thomas up until this year, circa '91-'97
Jeff Kent - If only because of the relative shortage of 2nd basemen who have power. MVP winner too, though Bonds shoulda won.
Bernie Williams - a really good Yankee CF, won some titles, etc. could be enough.
Jim Thome - I was surprised to see this guy closing in on 400 HR already.
Vladimir Guerrero - This guy will hit anything and hit it far.
Gary Sheffield - This guy's still only 34 or something, he's been around forever.
Carlos Delgado - Kinda like Thome, quietly putting together a great career
Manny Ramirez - Huge RBI numbers, great power and average. Weird guy though, not exactly Mr. Personality
Juan Gonzalez - Probably not, but you never know.
Ichiro - I mean, I think they might induct him even if he retires in 3-4 years. Just based on his playing in Japan and impact here. Maybe.

PITCHERS

Clemens, Big Unit, Maddux, Glavine...yeah, no doubt.

Pedro? Like the righthanded Koufax, he is. Might last a little longer though...

Mussina? If he keeps it up another 6-7 years I think so.

Mulder, Hudson, Zito...who knows? I'll bet at least one of them makes it.

If Wells and Moyer keep pitching til they're 47..hmm...

Kevin Brown - I'm gonna have to say no, though if he puts together 3 more great years that would be yes.

Curt Schilling - He wasn't HOF great until three years ago and he's getting up there...probably not.

Prior, Wood....we'll see.

And of course all those damn relievers. Who the hell knows? Your guess is as good as mine.

(p.s. Javy Lopez should get in for what he's done for my fantasy team this year)

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Thursday, 11 September 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

either they put Mitch Williams in the God damned hall of fame or I'm takin' my ball and goin' home

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 11 September 2003 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

BATTERS

Frank Thomas - couple of MVP awards (maybe a third this year?), insanely great hitter in the '90s

The first half of the 90's. Huge dropoff and several BAD seasons mean no HOF

Derek Jeter - a handful of World Series titles, clutch play, fine hitter

The only reason he's really making it is because every Yankee team needs to have someone from a dynasty in the Hall. He needs a number of better seasons and an MVP or two.

Ken Griffey, Jr. - will he get to 500 HR? unluckiest bastard on the planet, should still slip into the Hall either way

Nope.

Todd Helton

It will be very hard for any Coors-based field player to make it in just because of Home-Road splits. Most BBWAA members are smart enough to look at numbers like that these days.

Edgar Martinez -

He's closer than Griffey

Fred McGriff - First 500 guy not in HOF?

Yes.

Roberto Alomar - spat on an ump then suddenly began channeling Alfredo Griffin. still a shoe-in?

Yes.

Craig Biggio - I read some stuff about how he was the best player in the '90s, based in terms of speed, OBP, power, etc. Does he deserve it?
Larry Walker - three batting titles, legendary arm, great speed, MVP...and of course Denver and injuries. hmm...

Coors thing... Wasn't he a Brewer at some point?

Jason Giambi - The lefty Frank Thomas up until this year, circa '91-'97

This season is a wash for his average. After he had the eye surgery he's hitting .320 or something like that.

Jeff Kent

A boring choice to not make it in.

Bernie Williams - a really good Yankee CF, won some titles, etc. could be enough.

Nope. Not when you have Andrw Jones out there.

Jim Thome - I was surprised to see this guy closing in on 400 HR already.

Already at 34 years old. He's probably going to break down sometime soon -- he has a bad back, doesn't he?

Vladimir Guerrero - This guy will hit anything and hit it far.

Still too young to call.

Gary Sheffield

cf. Crime Dog

Carlos Delgado

No, no, no, no...

Manny Ramirez - Huge RBI numbers, great power and average. Weird guy though, not exactly Mr. Personality

He's in if he does well for the team he's on next year. He's Albert Belle without the threat of violence.

Juan Gonzalez

Pussy. < / Google >

Ichiro - I mean, I think they might induct him even if he retires in 3-4 years. Just based on his playing in Japan and impact here. Maybe.

Very possible in a Clemente (without the horrible ending) way

― ModJ, Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Mariano Rivera will be an interesting case.

― Kris (aqueduct), Thursday, 11 September 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The only definites, I think, are your first three batters (Bonds, Henderson, Sosa) and your first three pitchers (Clemens, Johnson, Maddux). These are all unanimous choices, as far as I'm concerned.

Helton currently has the 27th highest career batting average of all time (.333). If he keeps it up, it will be hard to ignore him, Coors Field or not.

Barry Larkin, who retires this year, should get some sentimental HOF votes -- more for playing on the same team for 18 years than for his MVP or World Series ring -- but will come up short, I think.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I am quite tickled to see someone in his first full major league season on this list. (Who could the "someone" be?)

And if you are going that way, you can't ignore Pujols.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

absolutely pujols.
why not delgado, modj¿
and you left out randy johnson.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

big unit = randy johnson

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

(Who could the "someone" be?)

I was thinking about starting a NL Cy Young thread. There is a small chance that Prior could win, but only if the Cubs make the playoffs. He also needs to win at least 17, I should think. (He's at 15 now.) The big question, of course, is do you just give it to Gagne and be done with it?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Esteban Loaizo for AL Cy Young.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i stil can't beleive that, fuggin loaiza¡

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 11 September 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - dyson, you're a Blue Jay fan correct? "E-Lo", as we affectionately refer to him, takes the hill today. After last night, the Sox really need to him to be the stopper.

Felicity, where have you been?! It took the baseball threads to bring you out of hiding!

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, he's my pick for sure.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi Diamond!

I was busy voting in Cook County elections -- early and often, you know. But I am going of of my mind with Chicago baseball.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

yes i am, mr.diamond.
we also had several nicknames we affectionate called loiza here in the t dot. none i shal repea tho.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this just because Loaiza is competing with Halladay for the AL-CY?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

(update: future hall-of-famer Roberto Alomar leads off with a fly out to center. But future hall-of-famer Frank Thomas just hit his 40th of the season, to put the White Sox up 1-0 in the bottom of the 1st)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

jaymc - Loaiza spent the last couple years in Toronto being thoroughly mediocre before his break-out this season.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, did not know that.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

cf: sydney ponson

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

egads... Loaiza just spit the bit; 4-1 Twins.

ok, I'm going to stop the running commentary now..

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe next year there should be an I Love Baseball.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Frank makes it no doubt. His "bad" years are still pretty damn good, and even if he merely has really good seasons like this year the rest of the way, he'll crack 500 HR. He's having a fantastic year this year as well, just without his old .310-.320 avg...and he still could win that MVP, considering the dearth of decent candidates in the AL (maybe A-Rod's year?)

re: Helton, he's hitting something like .335 for his career. And he's signed w/Denver through 2009 or something, right? Shouldn't be mistaken for Dante Bichette or Vinny Castilla...

Griffey still gets in, because when he was at his peak, he was the best player in the game. But he's certainly not a shoo-in anymore...

My Cubs bias made me list Prior...might as well talk about Pujols who is of course still young. There's a chance he could win the triple crown, though...

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

and he still could win that MVP, considering the dearth of decent candidates in the AL (maybe A-Rod's year?)

Bill Meuller, if the Bo Sox make it.

― ModJ, Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

and to think... the Giants could've paid him under $1 million this year instead of releasing him and spending $4.2 for Edgardo Alfonzo.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Thinking back to the 90s Jays: Henderson and Carter should possibly all join Dave Winfield. Never did like R. Alomar anyways. In the later part of the decade Roger Clemens should also get in.
But I haven't really been following baseball since the strike like most people in TO.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, like you could've predicted Mueller going super terrific like he did. You know, next year he's going to go back to his .260ish sure handed ways. Tho even old skool Mueller would be an improvement over Alfie & his bad back (that 4 day / week-long period of goodness sometime in July / August notwithstanding).

After what's happened to Griffey and Belle, I ain't predicting HOF status for anyone that's had less than 10 years of ML service (& that includes ARod). I'd go dig up some article about the Bill James HOF criteria check, but I have to do, um, stuff.

PS: AL MVP = Tim Hudson (or the Bill James / Theo Epstein braintrust)

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I forget whose criterion it is, but I like asking the question re: potential HOFers, "Were they ever, at any given time, the dominant player at their position?" This is a strike against players like McGriff, who's put up consistently good numbers, been in the game for years, but has never been the best first baseman.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 September 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

McGriff was one if not the best for a year [maybe two] with the Jays.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 11 September 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, like you could've predicted Mueller going super terrific like he did.

Leee to thread!!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

McGriff in the late '80s and early '90s was one of the elites, but his numbers pale in comparison to the first basemen who have followed in his wake. If I had a vote I can't say what I'd do with Crime Dog.

Of course not being dominant at his position probably won't hurt Palmeiro, who might get both 3,000 hits and 600 HR if he keeps it up another couple of years.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Thursday, 11 September 2003 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"keeps it up"

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 11 September 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!!

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 11 September 2003 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

now that's a serious medical condition he has, people

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Friday, 12 September 2003 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I really wasn't expecting Mueller to be hitting .320 w/ all those jimmy jacks. I liked him back in the day because of his oral toughness.

― Leee (Leee), Friday, 12 September 2003 05:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Folks that shouldn't make the HOF (tuff titty): Palmeiro, McGriff, Biggio, Kent, Jeter, maybe Bagwell, definitely Gonzo, & probably more. I reserve the right to change my mind based on the amount of abuse I suffer @ the hands of you heartless bastards.

The fookin' Mariners should be drawn & quartered for dicking around w/ Edgar Martinez back in the days when Jim Presley was sucking ass for the Tridents. EM missed 3 years, age 24-26 - that's potentially another 100 HRs, 300 runs, 300 RBIs, etc etc etc. Had he those years under his belt in addition to what he's accomplished, there'd be no doubt of his HOF credentials.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 12 September 2003 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

halladay won his 20th game today, another nine-inning gem.
first to win 20 this year in the AL.

― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Friday, 12 September 2003 07:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I almost sensed a collective sigh of relief when Jose Canseco retired well shy of 500 HR, because people were already pondering his HOF status, wondering what to do with such an clearly unqualified 500 HR guy. Of course now I think you'll ultimately see a large number of players getting to 500 HR and not making it. I think McGriff will be the first (not sure if he should or not), possibly Griffey (though he should), Juan Gonzalez, Delgado, or Thome.

Now what will you say if Johnny Viagra gets to those other plateaus?? He could quite conceivably finish in the top ten in RBIs and HR w/3000 hits.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Friday, 12 September 2003 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

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