question about photography and copyrights

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I don't know much about how copyrights work in terms of photographs, so I thought I'd consult the ILE massive. My girlfriend has a picture of (part of) herself that she wants to submit for a local newspaper contest; it was taken by a friend who now considers herself quite the little pro photographer. The photographer insists that she owns the photo no matter what, and all associated rights, and that the subject must get a license to use from her. This doesn't seem right to me...if there was no signed contract, doesn't the subject still own the right to their image, and the photographer need permission to use it? I don't know if she is technically right and just being annoying about being credited or if she is way off.

anonista (Jordan), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know the legal aspects, but based on common sense, I'd have to agree with the photographer. If I write a song about my girlfriend, she doesn't own the rights to it. It's my creation.

NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

NA OTM

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

generally if you didn't assert those rights when the photographer took the photo, you ain't got none.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, they're both half-right.

The photographer owns the copyright in the image. Your girlfriend has the right to approve of the commercial use of her likeness, if it's at all recognizable. Each one needs permission from the other to use the photo for commercial reasons.

felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

the photographer owns the the copyright of the picture ; the subject owns the right to the image in the picture

each must get some kind of licence/waiver from the other

mileage varies on how this negotiated (also it's probbly difft in difft countries)

believe me it is a NIGHTMARE when you are a magazine publishing photos of artworks owned by third parties and supplied by agencies

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

You gotta have permission from the photographer.

The interior design firm I work for has its work photographed all the time, but if we want these photos published in a magazine, we have to go through the photorgrapher, even though these are pictures of OUR interiors and WE commissioned the photographer to take these pictures for us.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

you can actually sign a deal many-use deal, esp.if you are getting promo shots done or similar

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i just had a thought: i am going to start billing for word-length when writing the picture credits in my mag!! i'll make a fortune!!

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Well the difference in the case of photos of interiors is that there are special laws that protect a person's right to control the commercial use of his name and likeness that don't apply to photographs of other things.

Many a time have the name and likeness laws come back to haunt a photographer or photo agency that grabbed the copyright in a photo, but forgot to get permission from the (human) subject, as mark s seems to have experienced.

felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm...what about paparazzi shots, then?

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hoorah, I learned my new thing for the day! Now I can sleep for the next 18 hours.

NA (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Is the newspaper contest a photography contest or a best knees (you didn't say which part of her) contest?
Is the photo being submitted for possible publication?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm...what about paparazzi shots, then?

There is a newsworthiness exception for public figures photographed in public places, like the sidewalk. Public figures aren't supposed to expect privacy when they are out in public areas. "Commercial" use means endorsements, advertisements, things like that, not reportage. But even then, celebrities can get restraining orders if it crosses over into stalkerazzi-ism, i.s, where the photog is actually getting into the physical space/face of the subject or trespassing on the private property of another.

felicity (felicity), Thursday, 11 September 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not a photography contest, it's a 'send us a picture of a body part you want tattooed and a story' contest. I think all the entries get put up on the website.

anonista (Jordan), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

the sanction you have against your photog friend is that from noew on you never speak to her w/o shaking yr head sadly etc

eg she is pricing herself out of the market: if she is comfortable w.this then there's not much you can do

(photographers who behave like complete abusive dicks or try and charge absurd fees simply stop getting work from us: photographers who are friendly and professional and willing to negotiate sensibly are never a problem, the more the merrier)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

mark otm.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not a photography contest, it's a 'send us a picture of a body part you want tattooed and a story' contest. I think all the entries get put up on the website.

You could probably get by with your own version of the image done with whatever camera happens to be around. I doubt many of the entries are going to be semi-pro or professional.

I assume, too, that if your story gets chosen for print publication, they'll send someone on the staff to do a photograph.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I too have been wondering about this topic. I've been toying with the idea of starting a website called whos-on-top.com... I would have photos taken of gay couples and the viewer has to guess who they think would, uh, be on top. Anyhow, Can I just go hang out in Chelsea and take photos of random men and stick it on my website without their written permission. I wouldn't be making any money of it, except maybe some lube company wanting to advertise on my site.

phil-two (phil-two), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

That depends on how legal you want it to be, Phil.

Why not just cover their eyes with black bars?

Also, consider Lesbian Or German Lady.

Chris P (Chris P), Thursday, 11 September 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)


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