HATED IT!Neil Tennant on the power of negative thinking
If not for hatred, I wouldn’t be doing what I do now. I became a pop star because I hated football at school. I hated that whole attitude of being one of the crowd. Becoming a pop star was my revenge. Revenge for being bad at football. For not being athletic. For being mocked.
That’s the thing about negative energy, about hatred. It can be positive. It throws into relief all the things you know you like. It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration; it makes you think, “What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.” Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.
I hate the way people all like the same things at the same time. I’ve never understood it. When people are told about Coke – “It’s the real thing” – they should think, “No, it’s a hideous soft drink that is fantastically unhealthy to drink, full of sugar that turns into glucose that turns into fat.” They should look around America and think, “God, there are so many fat people here! Why? Because they all eat hamburgers and drink cola.” And they should hate the people who represent that. They should hate Michael Jackson for trying to foist Pepsi onto them, to make them fat victims of their own society. They should hate more. Hate Pepsi, hate Coca-Cola, hate Michael Jackson. Hate George Bush. And think about the alternatives. That’s another good thing about hatred. It makes you think about the alternatives.
Of course, these days it’s more fashionable to be positive. I hate positivity. The problem with positivity is that it’s an attitude that’s decidedly about lying back, getting screwed, and accepting it. Happily. It’s totally apolitical. It’s very, very personal and one-on-one. It’s not about changing society, it’s about caring about yourself. In fact, it’s totally about ignoring one’s economic role in society, and so it works in favor of the system. Just look at work years of personal consciousness theories have given us: those icons of the status quo, George Bush and John Major.
Positivity is fundamentally middle-class. It’s about having the time, the space and the money to sort out where your head is at. Therapy is just another side of positivity. It’s a leisure activity, a luxury for people who don’t have any real cares. It’s new age selfishness, the new way of saying that charity begins at home.
And positivity makes the world stay the same. Hatred is the force that moves society along, for better or for worse. People aren’t driven by saying, “Oh wow, I’m at peace with myself.” They’re driven by their hatred of injustice, hatred of unfairness, of how power is used.
That’s as true for pop music as it is for politics. I always feel the reason so much music comes out of Britain is because there’s so much hatred. You see or hear something and grow envious. Whereas if your positive reaction is, “Wow, that’s great,” you just sit back and think how great it is and you don’t do anything. You relax.
Luckily, I’ve never been a very relaxed person. When I look at pop music, I immediately hate things. I look at singers who say they are taking two years off to work for charity when, in fact, they’ll spend two years working on their album, and I hate them. Right now I really hate performers who make a big deal out of playing benefits and donating the proceeds from the sales of their records to charities. They could give plenty of money to charities and not tell anyone, but instead, they cash in on the fact. That’s not charity, it’s marketing. It’s about selling albums under the guise of a moral imperative. They say they’re trying to raise consciousness, as if being a celebrity gives them power and endows them with the answers to the world’s problems. But really they just want to be seen as heroes. I think it’s breathtakingly cynical and I hate it.
Another thing I hate, and another inspiration for what the Pet Shop Boys do, is the way people misunderstand pop culture. It annoys me that after more than twenty-five years, Top of the Pops, Britain’s most important pop-music TV program, changed the rules so that you have to sing live. Why? Because the people in control are the kind of conservatives who think that in the ‘60s, everything was much more talented than they are now. It’s all about Rolling Stone rock culture, which is essentially a fear of the new. Rolling Stone’s idea of a musician is Jerry Garcia, from the 60s. Look at all the ‘new’ artists – Curtis Stigers, Michael Bolton, Lenny Kravitz – all of them living in the past. I think you have to live in the future. Or at least in the present.
The Pet Shop Boys have always hated most of the prevailing attitudes and tried to do the opposite. Our hatred of what other people do has always helped us redefine our actions. To hate a lot of things is tantamount to really caring about others. If you like everything, you deal with nothing. When people hear Chris and me talking, they’re sometimes shocked by how negative we are. We’re constantly critical of everything, including ourselves. But I come from a generation that liked its artists to say what was wrong with our lives. I retain the old-fashioned belief that pop music is meant to be a challenge to society as well as an affirmation of it. And so I consider it my duty to hate things.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 05:12 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 05:30 (twenty-two years ago)
Also quaint: an American mass-market magazine giving a fuck about what Neil Tennant thinks. You won't see that again, not ever! (Sadly.)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 05:39 (twenty-two years ago)
And the shit about fat Americans and Coca-Cola is terminally irrelevant, and quite in keeping with Details' own brand of consumerist complacency (be thin and beautiful, spend lots of money on clothes and cars and shit or no-one will ever love you, not ever).
Plus it's like, Neil, dude who had his life changed by punk etc etc, still feels the need to fight the good fight against all things hippy, even the quasi-hippies E'ed-up ravers and their guitar-wielding apologists who don't think dance music is evil.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)
― dave q, Wednesday, 17 September 2003 09:47 (twenty-two years ago)
― Nicolars (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)
― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)
― robster (robster), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)
*coughs*
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)
i'm gonna have to pull out some manila folders tonight...
― john'n'chicago, Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― john'n'chicago, Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)
This deserves reviving, in part because I FOUND the Details issue in which this was first published (July '92, bought in Cancun, savd because of an indispensable Bryan Ferry Q&A about hair and fashion, and a Cure article that's one of the best long pieces of music journalism I've ever read)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 18:55 (eighteen years ago)
nice of him to throw in this citation from ADOLF HITLER
― That one guy that quit, Saturday, 16 June 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)
x-post -- Yes indeed, I briefly mutter about that Cure article upthread. I remember buying the issue utterly at random -- I think it was at Union Station in LA and I wanted something to read on the train ride back down to San Diego -- and have always held on to it. It was the only issue I ever picked up.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)
there's quite a few excellent details issues from that era
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)
There sure were! From '91 to about early '97 it was the best showcase for serious music journalism and criticism in America (it's where Rob Sheffield got his start). SPIN was its only rival.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:06 (eighteen years ago)
Simon Reynolds has a story about US techno in that issue too, I remember.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)
Mind you, the fashion layout on how to dress like a genre stereotype and the 'hot new artists in underwear' bit (Cause and Effect? Gutterboy? Me Phi Me?) serves as a corrective.
and a Deee-lite cover story! and Anthony Kiedis on women! (ummm....)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)
You too can dress like the Stone Roses and Michael Stipe for under $2,000!
(xpost)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:15 (eighteen years ago)
Mike Watt on flannel was cool.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:15 (eighteen years ago)
Hooray, I found the issue, still sitting in my bookcase with various other music-related stuff. What else was in here...
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:16 (eighteen years ago)
Okay the Diesel and Mossimo ads are utterly of their time.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:17 (eighteen years ago)
And the ad for the Men. Who the hell was this band?
"This is real.
This is now.
This is a freak show baby anyhow."
(From the self-titled debut album featuring, "Church of Logic, Sin and Love.")
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)
The Jajouka article doesn't seem so bad on first glance though I wonder how it would be written now.
Matthew Sweet as a collector geek-boy and Ice-T on the art of the pickup! They asked these people to play to their strengths, at least. (There's also a picture of Ian McCulloch throwing around a doll in his house, I seem to remember.)
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)
Oh yes, and Mary Gaitskill on Axl, complete with photo of his naked ass.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)
Xgau's prehistory of rock and roll article is pretty neat, it's actually kind of a prototypical EMP-style piece, if you count the illustrations as multimedia.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)
I don't have the issue with me at present, but I remember photo spreads of homes of your boy McCullough Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)
Haha, and I had totally forgotten (but immediately remembered upon seeing it again) the brilliant Kaz comic that concludes the issue, "Music of Tomorrow," which has all more or less come true.
"...narrowcasting will be taken to the limit with cults of listeners who will be listening to only one note!!!"
POPEYE-LOOKING LOUT: "The 'F' note is the ultimate! All other notes suck!"
ANOTHER POPEYE-LOOKING LOUT: "Fuck that shit! 'G' notes rule!"
The whole issue is an amazing time capsule -- also, the Lance Loud piece on LA early seventies glam rock and Robert Gordon's on Memphis in the 50s and 60s, both of which consist of detailed oral histories from many interview participants, are obvious precursors to books like Please Kill Me and We've Got the Neutron Bomb in terms of musical oral history. Were these kinds of pieces more common than I realized?
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)
his brave stance against fat americans was the turning point in our nation's struggle with obesity.
― gershy, Saturday, 16 June 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)
Neil Tennant OTM
― Jeb, Saturday, 16 June 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)
I hate the way people all like the same things at the same time. I’ve never understood it. When people are told about Coke – “It’s the real thing” – they should think, “No, it’s a hideous soft drink that is fantastically unhealthy to drink, full of sugar that turns into glucose that turns into fat.”
but no, those stupid americans actually think it's the "real thing"!!1!
― That one guy that quit, Saturday, 16 June 2007 20:16 (eighteen years ago)
"wild palms"
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 16 June 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)
maybe i'm mistaken re: nivana. but there are vague memories of a pic of kurt showing off the scratches on his back inflicted by courtney love during a, uh, session.
hahaha I still have that Details, it's the only one I ever kept.
― marmotwolof, Saturday, 16 June 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)
That issue dates from September or October '93, before the release of In Utero.
Ignoring the essay's larger points non-shockah.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 16 June 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)
well this article was sort of stupid
― river wolf, Saturday, 16 June 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)
I hate the way people all like the same things at the same time.
Says the great pop theorist.
― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Saturday, 16 June 2007 23:31 (eighteen years ago)
-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:17 PM
i guess i'll have to rescreen it
― gershy, Saturday, 16 June 2007 23:35 (eighteen years ago)
hahahahahaha
― marmotwolof, Saturday, 16 June 2007 23:53 (eighteen years ago)