This is the thread where we talk about Scottish football

PS: I reserve the right to be extra delete happy on this thread.

The SPL need to abandon the minimum stadium capacity requirements; it's pointless. As is the ridiculous split with 5 games to go, which like cricket, Rugby League and Rugby Union, show that the only time a competition tinkers with format is when the competition as it stands isn't delivering on the competitive front, but can't make the radical redistributive break that would bring about said competition. Instead of grasping the financial and political nettle, they bring in marketing cockfarmers who advise great new formats that will pack them in and be absolutely great etc.

erm, no wonder Owen Hargreaves doesn't play for Canada when his own countrymen can't get his name right ;o)

Vicky, it's because he'd want to play decent football surely?

i'm sure they can spell Peschisolido however...

Damm damm, you caught me, it was alomst midnight for me ;)

i'm sure they can spell Peschisolido however...

What Tomasz Radzinski isn't hard enough to spell?

Back to the topic sorta, Davide Xausa is playing for Falkirk (1st?) after leaving Livingston.

(Canadian internationalist Richard Hastings also plays in Scotland for Ross County having transferred from Inverness Caley Thistle. Nick Dasovic, Dave-Grohl-a-like Canadian defender also used to play for St Johnstone. What's with all these Canadians?).

Celtic's mascot, Hoopy, was sacked for nicking someone's wallet.

http://www.babababies.com/images/pics/81_a7040_2-4833.jpg

As opposed to...?

G W D L F A W D A F A Pts GD
1. Rangers 44 12 6 4 43 22 10 8 4 31 19 58 +33
2. Aberdeen 44 11 9 2 33 12 6 12 4 25 24 55 +22
3. Motherwell 44 11 7 4 31 20 9 7 6 27 23 54 +15
4. Celtic 44 8 11 3 25 17 7 9 6 26 21 50 +13
5. Hibernian 44 11 7 4 29 15 5 8 9 24 33 47 +5
From Here

Make that a one-horse race

*sits back and waits for bucketloads of egg to land on face around May*

Still, would rather have stayed in the champions league :0(

I like how our Champions League exit this year mirrored the UEFA Cup Final last year. 3-2, and all hinging on a harsh decision involving Bobo Balde. Gah. (see also dodgy goalkeeping).

Possible topics:
Paterson sacked from Aberdeen: Right decision? Should he even have survived the "missing a 3 o'clock kick off with a hangover" fiasco?

Tony Mowbray gets Hibs job: His comments about fast flowing incisive attacking football will have many who saw him play scratch their heads.

Where next for Davie Hay: A man who's once again done very little wrong but seems destined for the shit end of the stick with a new regime at Almondvale.

Mad Martin: Will he stay or will he go? I was fairly confident he would refuse Spurs but is Liverpool a big enough draw to tempt him south.

Rangers debt: £68M and counting? Senior players leaving in droves for the last 12 months. How do they stop the rot? Is signing only players called Rae the way forward (cheaper to put RAE on the shirts than Kisanishvilli :-P )?

Celtic: Life after Larsson. One man team? Can they replace him? Overheard a classic line at Hampden on Saturday "Rivaldo? He's no' Cellic class!"

Caley Thistle: Having a board meeting to decide whether to even bother being promoted! Is the SPL really such a bad prospect.

And lots lots more - the fitba's usually pish but still plenty to keep the hacks busy filling pages with daft speculation.

No, but paying £10k every second week to a rival, not to mention taking a 200 mile round trip for your home games along one of the worst roads in Scotland, when you have a perfectly adequate hovel for your shitey support seems a bit pointless for the privilege of getting horsed by Motherwell week in week out...

Latest today is Calderwood allegedly going to Aberdeen with Davie Hay going to Dunfermline leaving the Livvie job vacant (dunno why anyone would want that job, they're skint and apparently only have 4 players under contract).

Plastic Whistle going down was a shame - they were the only SPL who ran a balanced budget, and look where it got them...

OTM all the same. Why we are insisting on half empty stadia is beyond me. I'm all for a 16 or 18 team league and a reduction in fixtures, but the clubs outside the Old Firm would need to vote to sacrifice gate money for it to happen.

Celtic will be a much poorer side without Larsson and I don't think they will hold on to O'Neill. That shouldn't prevent them from a string of SPL titles but I doubt we will see much more in the way of European heroics. The bottom line is that the barriers to competing at the top level in Europe are too steep - the lack of TV money, the difficulty of attracting good players to the SPL, the lack of top quality domestic players, the lack of competitive games.

Rangers are in very, very serious trouble. Administration must be a possibility. With the size of support they have they are bound to bounce back to some extent eventually but it may take a decade and permanent damage may have been done first.

Clubs outside the Old Firm are debt-ridden and have been slowly but consistently haemhorraging support as the gap between the OF and the rest widens. With clubs now becoming more serious about sticking to budgets I can't see this reversing, even though the OF will themselves be downsizing in the immediate future.

If the OF can't get out of the SPL or make an impact in Europe they are going to reap what they've sown in systematically making the SPL less and less competitive in the belief that their own future lies elsewhere. In aggressively looking after number one they have been systematically destroying their own core product, competitive SPL fixtures. Unless something drastic happens within 5 years we will see average gates of 5,000-6,000 or less at Aberdeen and Hearts. There will come a time when even OF fan will stop being willing to shell out for season tickets for a series of increasingly one-sided games againsts progressively weaker opposition. There will be a tipping point where it becomes obvious that season tickets will not sell out and that fans can pick and choose games: at that stage season ticket sales (and attendances for routine SPL games) will be decimated.

I agree the 10,000 seater stadium rule is a farce, but it's a long way from being the Scottish game's main problem.

The non-OF clubs would make more money from them leaving the SPL, as gates would in all likelihood rise. Another alledged benefit is the number on OF away fans who visit four times a season, but that's declining as they can't be arsed to pay lots to see walkovers (prices being increased as a way of trying to balance the books). Idiotic distribution of income is compunded by cretinous management. It's an object lesson in why leagues tend towards boredom unless a stgrong regulatory body can enforce the top clubs to act against their short-term self-interest.

I wouldn't place *all* of the blame on Old Firm self interest, there were a lot of managers and board members at other clubs making seriously bad decisions throughout the years of Sky TV coverage and some of the consequences are only just being realised.

If frankie's predictions about falling attendances and poor season ticket renewal figures come true then we might end up with a more competitive league by default. Sadly it'll only be achieved by falling standards at Celtic and Rangers rather than any big improvements elsewhere.

I certainly don't want Rivaldo at Celtic.

Celtic allegedly targetting Basturk, Neuville and Bertbatov from Leverkusen. Have we only got a travel budget to watch one team?

£12.99 per month or £99 per season (limited offer). I've no idea how many subscriptions they need to make money but I really think the take up will be low. Will be interesting to see the numbers, particularly as the prices look the same as the 'certain to fail' SPL-TV venture that was vetoed.

Subscription includes 38 live matches, all of which will be replayed several hours later for fans who were at the game (and don't have videos, one presumes), 10 minutes of highlights of every other game, plus the usual interviews, news, analyis, etc.

Agreed there has been mismanagement on a grand scale. For twenty years the economics of football have moved in 3 entirely predictable ways:

1. more money has come into the game overall

2. the gaps between bigger and smaller clubs within the same league have got wider

3. the gaps between clubs in larger leagues and clubs in smaller leagues have got wider

Faced with this the boards of Scottish clubs have focussed on the implications that suited them and stuck their head in the sand as regards the others.

Non-OF clubs focussed on 1 and paid insufficient attention to 2 and 3. They thought the cake was going to get bigger and their job was to position themselves for as big a slice as possible. Speculate to accumulate was their motto. This was based on the false supposition that everyone was going to get richer, but more successful clubs would get rich faster. It ignored the possibility that, despite more money coming into the game, the economics of the game were being skewed in such a way that while big clubs in big leagues would get much richer, smaller clubs in small leagues would actually become poorer. Clubs acquired huge debts they could not service and ended in crisis.

The OF clubs focussed on 1 and 2 but paid insufficient attention to 3 (or to the adverse indirect consequences for themselves of 2). Again, the idea (and Rangers were much worse culprits than Celtic) was that they had to spend to keep up with the big boys and get as big a slice as possible of that ever-swelling cake. They lost sight of the fact that their domestic league was too small to fund these ambitions and their own particular cake was never going to be very big. TV money was key and the SPL doesn't have the right product. Liverpool can command a decent TV audience for games against Arsenal, MU, Chelsea, Everton, yadda yadda right down to the bottom of the league. Celtic v Rangers attracts attracts a TV audience smaller than Everton v Man City. Games against Motherwell, Kilmarnock? Forget it. And games BETWEEN Motherwell and Kilmarnock? Doubly forget it. Which is why Onimo is almost certainly right that Setanta will struggle.

So not *all* the problems are the fault of the OF. But basically, even if everybody is making bad decisions, it's the bad decisions made by the powerful that do most damage. You didn't have to be Einstein to realise that Rangers and Celtic were not going to challenge MU, Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern etc for European honours based on income available to an SPL club.

They are second or third tier in European terms and the gap is widening every season. The OF can only beat the limitations of the SPL by getting out of the SPL. They've tried, but so far hit a blank wall.

Unless they can exit the SPL, the OF having a strategy based on success in Europe rather than the domestic game is crazy. A strategy based on Europe at the expense of wrecking the domestic game is suicidal.

I won the Euro one and the fantasy football (not just the ILX mini league but the whole thing) and have never had a free pint off anyone either.

I am in. I think we should start a new thread for the season so you can all laugh at Hibs there.

I can laugh at Hibs anywhere, really.

Save your Hibs laughter until the weekend. There may be other chuckles to be had in the meantime.

Hibs have started the "out of Europe before the season starts" precedent though...

Elfsborg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kaunas

There may be other chuckles to be had in the meantime.

-- onimo, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 16:30

Wish I'd been on those chuckles at 9/2. Ah well.
Shame about the coefficient all the same ;)

I have just about stopped laughing enough to post more hahahaahahahahahaha messages :-) Early props to onimo for an early contender for text message of the season ("cow's arse survives banjo attack" following Kenny Misser's "attempt" at a "chip")

Who's starting the "Rangers won't win the UEFA Cup 2008/09" new Scottish football predictions thread then?

dearie me. but if we can keep up that level of play, I'm confident of a top half league finish this season. confident! even as a (somewhat... well, very reluctant) Rangers fan, I couldn't help but laugh at Whittaker's stunning deftness with the ball at his feet; first touches that see the ball land forty yards away, punting the ball into the crowd while trying to run the line. I'd like to thank Rangers, because now this year I won't have a dozen nights of wondering what I could have been doing with those two hours.

It was nice to see Rangers' attempts at getting away from last season's bore-athons by spending all their money on strikers paying off there. Ugly Betty's convenient injury saving him from being cup-tied might come in a bit handy for them though...

ROMANOV 2
MONKEYS IN ZOO 1

Need to hear Mad Vlad's interview with Radio Scotland, according to the internets there were some references to Scottish football being run by the mafia and a suggestion that Kaunas had a harder game against that Andorran mob in the last round.

lol

I think Romanov may be just about the most entertaining thing about the SPL these days.

In terms of embarrassement, this just about beats Celtic getting beaten by a graphics design company (Artmedia Bratislava). All together now, Superkaunusgoballisticrangersareatrocious!

I believe Artmedia are ranked way above Kaunus, and remember Celtic almost turned that one around. Still a fucking disaster all the same :(

My favourite football forum broke last night with the sheer volume of lols.

Need I remind you of the score in that game?

Tom, don't forget Artmedia went on into the Champions League group stages, where they drew twice with Rangers and finished above Porto. I'll reserve judgment on who is worse until I see if Kaunas go through and trounce Celtic in our group, but on paper this looks way worse than ours - as Onimo points out, we were terrible in one leg (which kinder people could put down to a terrible lapse in concentration, a fluke, a misguided belief that Mo Camara is a footballer, whatever), they were terrible in both legs which I can only put down to them actually being terrible.

No no, the embarrassment wasn't losing, it was losing 5-0

Need I remind you of the score in that game?

5-4 wasn't it? With them dead on their feet and hanging on at the end. First leg was a nightmare compounded by bad tactical decisions (pushing on at 1-0 and 2-0 down when the tie could still be easily won at home).

Didn't Celtic cuff Kaunus 4-0 away from home in their next European tie after reaching the UEFA Cup Final?

We turned it round in a fortnight and beat them 4-0, so it seems pretty much a one-off to me (don't forget we also shipped 4 goals to Motherwell that week, albeit in a 4-4 draw, so at least we learned to score in the interim!). Rangers have been uniformly boring and negative, went out, bought a ton of strikers, didn't play any of them except the one that's been proven time and again to be useless, and got found out. Doesn't seem much progress from being in a European final less than three months ago.

xpost

As a neutral both were extremely lolworthy. Arguing which is the most embarassing is the football equivalent of two bald men arguing over the use of a comb.

Somehow losing 5-0 against some shite made-up team cuts a little deeper for me, even if we'd won 10-0 in the return leg... but, yes, LOL @ losing in the last few minutes while playing for a draw AGAINST FC KAUNAS

that's the made-up team that were formed in 1898, is it? As opposed to Kaunas who were formed in 1960?

Though the thought that Queen of the South are still in Europe while Rangers sit at home watching Eastenders is very amusing.

(sorry, devil's advocate hat firmly on here...)

xpost

also, lol at QotS' wiki page:

After Rangers second round defeat in the UEFA Champions League qualification to FC Kaunas, Queen of the South are now in a European competition longer than Rangers for the first time in their existance.

Well, the good news they've only brought shame and opprobrium on themselves this season and not the entire Scottish nation

... and I mean by the team boring people senseless on the field while the fans kick people senseless off it

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1126121770?bctid=1713734258

Is it me or is Christian Dailly suppressing the giggles?

No, it's not just you. I've been telling you for ages he's One Of Us, and i think that corner he conceded for their second was the moment I've been waiting for from him since he signed :-)

ah here you all are. i only just heard about this.

Drunken Gers fan posts his post match thoughts on youtube

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ioVkARO7o

(note the original was taken down but thankfully some nice chap had saved it for posterity)

NSFW sweary words btw

fuckin fuckin fuckin didnae fuckin sort the fuckin fuckin hing fuckin fucking pissed aff fuckin fuckin

One of their more intelligent followers

I see there are already six of us in the predictor minileague. A 50% increase on last year!

hope that guy loses his season ticket

permarage, hun, huns, wife beater, ape, monkey, kaunas, rangers, follow follow, celtic laughing, cmon the hoops, novos a rat, i do love wattys tactics, sally, chris sutton done it

Chick Young talking to Vladimir Romanov last night:

CY: Vladimir, that was some result for Kaunus. Do you think that is the finest result Kaunus have ever had in Europe?

VR: Well, you must remember we had a very tough match in the last round in Andorra, and were without a number of our best players.

CY: What does this result do for the reputation of the SPL?

VR: I think it showed that Rangers would compete well in the Lithuanian league.

The laffs just keep on comin'

I've been telling you for ages he's One Of Us

Daillie scored Celtic's consolation goal in Ronnie Moran's testimonial. I'd completely forgotten he played for us. albeit for one game only (along with Jason McAteer).

http://www.ronniemoran.com/testimonial.htm

Internets still bringing teh funny:

Rangers' new Euro kit unveiled

ROFL

^ from another forum who are bringing the quality lolz

Chick Young brings more lolz

But if you want to talk architecture then the team that Walter Smith has the look of a condemned Glasgow multi-storey about it.

A thing of beauty? They are the equivalent of a bus shelter with the glass kicked in.

not that it makes grammatical sense or anything, but the sentiment's amusing enough...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/7544302.stm

Who is the least fortunate man in this clip?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kenny+misser&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Results 1 - 10 of about 15,700 for kenny misser. (0.22 seconds)

Did you mean: kenny miller

Clydesdale Bank Premier League Table 11 August 2008 21:47

  		  	P 	GD 	PTS

1 	Hamilton 	1 	2 	3

2 	Inverness CT 	1 	2 	3

3 	Hearts 		1 	1 	3

4 	Celtic 		1 	1 	3

5 	Kilmarnock 	1 	1 	3

6 	Rangers 	1 	1 	3

Congratulations to Hamilton Academical and all their supporter.

Oi, we have a new thread now: Hearts won't win the SPL 2008/09