Do women want to be dominated?

I'm not buying into this any further, because I'm sure all the guys will wade in and speak for the ladies, as usual *yawn*.

if no one else is gonna do it =will but damn does race play into here too - ie, the Asian womyn thang ?

funny or not, but whenever i talk to non-american males, they always comment on how american women are massive bitches

european or asian

just that cultural standards have to account for something when it comes to studying gender behavior

any man tries to hold the door open for me, OTOH, I pity the fool. that pisses me off to no end.

Yeah, all women want to be dominated like all men want to be castrated.

I just love these generalizations.

I agree that some women desire to be dominated. I also assert that some men desire to be dominated.

I disagree that 'wanted to be taken care of' constitutes a desire for domination. I assert that it constitutes a desire to have one's needs and security and thoughts evaluated and responded to in a satisfactory manner.

I do agree that wanting the other person '...to take charge and make decisions' is one way of expressing a desire for domination. I also assert that wanting the other person '...to take charge and make decisions' is one way of expressing a desire to hand over responsibilities for the more trivial matters that may be on the mind of the dominant, so they can busy themselves with other things.

I agree that some women '...have wanted to be fucked in that raw ape-like way' and possibly have expressed that in so many words. I also assert that some men '...have wanted to be fucked in that raw ape-like way.'

I disagree with the implied conclusion that the desire to '...be fucked in that raw ape-like way' somehow expresses a desire to be dominanted in any manner, much less sexually. Many people want raunchy and aggressive and 'raw' sex without it being a dominant/submissive interaction.

In response to the idea that somehow feminism resulted in teaching people that women didn't want to be dominated, I agree. It did convey precisely that. I simply disagree that that conclusion is somehow a bad thing.

I do assert and believe that feminism freed women from being told what they desired and instead said that they were free to determine and express what they desire. And that includes the desire, for some, to be dominated by males. It also includes the desire, for some, to dominate males. And it also includes the desire, for some, to have nothing to do with the other sex. Feminism gave women choices and the right to decide, for themselves, what they did and did not want from their lives, in all fascets. It also gave men, by association, the right to decide what they want from their lives (of particular appeal to those males who are more comfortable rejecting the societally-dictated masculine roles and behaviors).

Stay away from the damn generalizations, please. They lead nowhere.

I think the line is thinner than we, the PC, generally like to acknowledge. The caretaker or the predominant breadwinner in the relationship generally gets to call more of the shots. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I've found this to be true. It's not dominance in the sense of opression, it's more political than that. And it brings up sticky gender issues, even for me. I'm not trolling, and I'm not trying to sound like a dick, and I'd appreciate it if ILX thought about this before sounding the expected knee-jerk response.

Having said that, you did say "Women often do want to be dominated, right?" which, as stated above by others, is a bit of a generalisation, IMO.

But I don't feel up to discussuing this further if it's going to turn into a pointless shitfight, as I don't enjoy those. So I'll let others continue. Just wanted to say sorry for the troll remark (*very, very sleep depped and cranky*).

In the meantime, I was trying to avoid blanket generaliztion by using the word "often." This is just my experience, and notice I'm asking, not telling.

Have you?

See, this is where I'm really unevolved. If I can't pay for dinner, I'm in no mood to go home and throw you on the bed and tie you up.

As far as roles when it comes to sexual interations are concerned, I feel that I am always in control/am the dominant person in that I am the one setting the limits and giving the directions (though my partner and submissive is not following all commands blindly, but rather is chosing to accept and follow each one as each is avaluated). But at the same time, I can say 'Rub my back until I fall asleep and then get me ready for bed.' Once that is said, I give over responsibility for how the back rub is given, so that the submissive is making the decisions about what to do and I am free to let go of the cares of the world. That does not make me submissive in any way.

I think that dominant/submissive roles are something that is worked out between the individuals and that can change along with situations and partners: nothing in this world is static nor set in stone.

I think that it's interesting, Kenan, that you site the power that is associated with the breadwinner with power of being the dominant. Right now I am not much of a breadwinner at all, and yet I am still the dominant, no questions asked. I also don't feel like a kept woman or that I need to somehow fulfill all of the beadwinner's desires in order to be secure in the relationship. However, I know that this is not true for everyone. And I know that money can be a very powerful motivator/factor in terms of decision-making, in that if one person is beholden to the other in terms of money, then they're inclined, I think, to be more likely to assume a submissive role. But this is not true for everyone.

yes. its what i just said, isn't it? and for the record, the relationship was terrible. i guess i just don't want to be dominated.

I think that it's interesting, Kenan, that you site the power that is associated with the breadwinner with power of being the dominant.

See, I think that's really boring of me, not at all interesting. I worry that I'm stuck in the 50's with my sexual politic.

No need for the indignance.

I'ts happened to me, too. Um... extremely recently. That's a lot of where this thread is coming from -- being accused of not meeting a staunch feminist's needs by not being agressive enough. I thought they wanted timid and respectful all the time! I'm so fucking lost.

At the ripe old age of 28, I am just beginning to understnad this. God have mercy on the indie kids.

Or that you didn't want to be dominated by that particular person at that particular time in that particular situation? (While I'm 99.9% dominant, I can see being in a situation with another dominant where I could be submissive to that person in certain arenas. I've just not met that person, yet.) Also, there is a difference between Dominance and Submission and Top/Bottom, Sadist/Masochist power arrangements in many situations.

I think that's really boring of me, not at all interesting. I worry that I'm stuck in the 50's with my sexual politic.

Why? If it's who you are, then go with it. Who gives a damn what others think or believe? You're an adult, you're intelligent, you're worldly, and therefore you're capable (and even expected, in some circles) to have a belief system that reflects yourself, not what society thinks. And if your beliefs happen to be the same as those in the 50s, then so be it. Don't be ashamed of that. You are who you are. (Go read the Dr. S*uss book about the birthday bird, for more self-affirmations ... I'm serious ... it helps me when I'm questioning who I am.)

being accused of not meeting a staunch feminist's needs by not being agressive enough. I thought they wanted timid and respectful all the time!

To hell with them. The person's political stance/beliefs has (or maybe should have) nothing to do with what the person needs and desires. This person has a responsibility to tell you what they need in from you in those areas. And you need to tell them what you need. And if you don't know, then that's okay too, but be willing to talk about it and work through the issues as they arise.

I consider myself to be a feminist and a dominant. And I sure as hell don't want someone to be timid and respectful all of the time. Chances are, if I am attracted to someone to the point where D/s issues arise, then I want them for their ideas and knowledge and dreams and thoughts. I don't want a floormat. Really. What's the point? I am honored when someone that I respect choses me to to give themselves to. I am not honored when some man goes from fem-dom to fem-dom, offering his 'services' to anyone who will take them. Yes, I do want respect. But I want that from everyone. And I will extend the same. I respect submissives. I cannot understand their needs, but I am respectful of their validity. And I respect dominants. And everyone in between.

I'm so fucking lost. Ah. Now this I understand and empathasize with. I'm lost, too, right now. I don't know where I am going from where I am now, and how to get there, and whether that will mean that I lose the two men who give my life joy and meaning. But all I can do is keep talking with them and others who are involved. And I need to be honest about what is in my mind, even if all that is there is mud. I'd think that you'd need to do the same. It cannot hurt, at least.

contradiction are hott

Yeah. Really. Yeah. That's one of my major weaknesses. Give me a person in 'authority' who wants to crawl to me and I melt into a puddle. Yep. Contradictions are marvelous things. And endearing, too. But they're also perplexing at times.

HA! You just said something, believe it or not. I never fancied myself a pimp, but these days, apart from marriage, kids, old age, and death, what else is there?

HA! You just said something, believe it or not. I never fancied myself a pimp, but these days, apart from marriage, kids, old age, and death, what else is there?

Hmmm. And I want to be a madam with my own house of whacks and sexual thrills in Nevada. See, you're okay Kenan! (Seriously, though, there is an argument with some validity about marriage being a pimping situation, in that one pays for the other ... it goes back to the breadwinning thing, I think. But I'm too tired to think any more.)

Blood and sparkles, that was a most delightful definition. I'm going to steal it for my blog. Thank you.

I've never liked the concept of dominance-in-relationships because it implies that there's no balance-of-dominance between the partners, and in most relationships I've witnessed a shared-control situation. Even the most passive/maleable persons have some control over their partner in some form or other. And I think the concept of breadwinner-as-dominant partner has far more basis in Western civilization's default-capitalism-mindedness than it does modern sexual-psychology.

also Kenan -- you've NEVER had yr. arms held down by some woman on top of you? yr. missing out.

I think that actually at some point in a relationship the whole who's doing the "work" at any given time in bed amounts to mainly negotiation between shared laziness rather than any sort of psychological kink at all.

on the fookin money *wibbles*

the sadder fact is that when im really fed up i do occassionaly wish i could stop thinking and just do. that said, when i think about it, i'd probably end up feeling pretty disgusted with myself, as well as very awkward, if i did ever take the "any hole is a goal" philosophy to heart.

Hell, to be perfectly honest I've had times in my life where it's been looking for the er, hmmm, (crap, I can't think of the witty phrase to insert here) basically the sexual release without giving a damn as to who is providing it. An extremely unpleasant (in my mind) way to think of another person. And I've had times where I've joked (and yet there is some truth to it) that I've always wanted lovers that I can keep in my closet and bring out when I want friendship-companionship-sex. Not a very pretty way of thinking about those that one has chosen to go through life with, I must say. (I think it also goes along with my semi-real frustration that the world doesn't revolve around me and that my desires are not always met to my satisfaction, etc. to infinity.)

How so, Ronan? Some people think exactly this way. I think "I want to be worshipped by submissives." That doesn't mean that I am a space alien, I don't think. Please explain.

Anna - you're so completely dead-on! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

being taken care of = having emotional needs tendered too, laundry done, house cleaned, cooked for

What? I think that having one's laundry done, house cleaned, cooked for, and so forth is having a mother. And that's not what I want. I already have one, thank you very much. And I don't want to be one, either. I agree that being taken care of means having one's emotional needs acknowledged and taken into consideration, but I don't agree that 'having emotional needs tendered to' in anyway equates to being taken care of. The only person who really needs to tender to any emotional needs is the individual.

I think that actually at some point in a relationship the whole who's doing the "work" at any given time in bed amounts to mainly negotiation between shared laziness rather than any sort of psychological kink at all

I agree with this completely (and sadly). However, is this discussion limited to sexual dominance/submission, aggression/reception, or are we looking at dominance and submission within the whole (or many/multiple aspects of) the relationship?

(And I am all for holding down the man's [or woman's] arms during sex ... but it isn't always necessary.)

'form jokes of-- lord custos!'
-- trife (...), September 29th, 2003.

I think the trouble started when the thread went all abstract instead of sticking to the Raw Ape-like Fucking.

-- RJG (r_gillander...), September 29th, 2003 5:08 AM. (RJG)

All the other girly men
ask for my permission
But the one I dream about
Sneers with hot derision

So put me in a body cast
Throw me down the stair
They ask "Why pick a man like that?"
I say "Because he's there."

Though admittedly not
Smelling quite like a rose

We've voted in a government
that's rotting at the core,
Appointing Godless Judges
who throw reason out the door.

Too soft to place a killer
in a well-deserved tomb,
But brave enough to kill a baby
before he leaves the womb.

You think that God's not angry,
that our land's a moral slum?
How much longer will He wait
before His judgment comes?

but doesn't everyone in the South talk exactly like that lawyer guy in My Cousin Vinny?

Though he might be into
Bondage and hitting
I'm really not
I was only kidding!

Pulling my punches
A trouble sign.
I probably oughta
Drink some wine.