Boston -- Classic or Dirty Water?

I have nothing against Memphis, mind you (beyond a somewhat irrational feeling that moving back to the city where you grew up is tantamount to giving up), but if we're going to move to the South, I would much prefer Atlanta or the DC area. If we move at all, I'd like to go to San Francisco, DC, Chicago, Vancouver, Montreal, London, Berlin, Sydney, or Amsterdam. (If I knew Japanese, Tokyo would also be under consideration.)

Aerosmith now, please. I think the early 80's version (Steven Tyler locked away in seedy motels, emerging only to score smack) was preferable to todays incarnation. Though pissing off the crowd at the Indianapolis 500 is always admirable.

As much as I hate to admit it now, I used to be a Mets fan, and so alienated friends and family in 1986. Though on the bright side, the gambling was nice, I won countless bets and took money from friends and family alike.

My parents still want me to move there. "We know you like big cities, how come you never gave Boston a try?" Because it always feels second rate to me. Sorry, Bostonians. And it just doesn't seem as gregarious a town as New York. Though it's a hell of a lot friendlier than the town I live in now, Los Angeles.

However, it has the big city charm (from the hours of 6 AM to 1 AM) without much of the skeevy element that causes me to despise New York when I'm not in awe of it. However, were I living on the outskirts of Boston, working in some sort of programming capacity, pulling down the mean green, I would be in such heaven. (For a little while, anyway.) That said, I should probably escape the East Coast one of these days and check out US locales not named Bump or Bend or Coos Bay.

The traffic. Where else do people routinely cut you off, then give YOU the finger? Where else but Boston can you find signs that say "traffic lights timed for frequent stops". Why are there so many intersections where the two streets have the same name? And is there a law against signs which name the major streets? Why is everything so backwards here?

Why, why, with so many young people, is there so little alternative culture here? Why are there so many sports bars?

Why does it cost so much? Sure, you can find similar prices in SF or NYC, but take a look at the space, quality, style and the neighborhoods in those cities. People keep going on about how close something is to "Central Square". Who cares? - So you can be near to the Maxi's 99c store, a (ubiquitous) Dunkin Donuts, the Jax liquidation outlet, Putnam's discount furniture, the list goes on. $1400 for a filthy 1br hole in some horrible vinyl-sided 70s renovation in this "highly desirable" neighborhood.

I guess this dowdy puritanical New England town is just not for me.

So, yeah, Bri, visit, ya fule.

First off, I've been living here going on five years now. I've never lived in "Boston" proper--I lived in Cambridge for 4 years (MIT), and now I work on documentary films for WGBH (the Boston PBS affiliate) and live in Somerville. I think in order to love/hate this place fully, you've got to experience all the parts of it.

Of course most of Boston--the rich, snotty parts, like the Back Bay--suck. Avoid them like the plague. Yes, Central Square (which is in Cambridge, not Boston) has become more gentrified..but look beyond Central; explore the outer edges..Jamaica Plain, Brighton, Allston, Somerville. South Boston. The parts of Cambridge that aren't directly on the T but still within walking distance. The parts that are less traveled.

There is beauty here; you just have to find it. And as much as I sometimes think I hate living here, I find myself getting defensive about it. Today in Central Square I ran into a group of kids from Berkeley. They were walking down Mass Ave, and one of them said "Dude, this is nothing like Telegraph." Of course it's not.. keep your alterna-hippies to yourself, I say. Sure, we don't have Amoeba Records, but we do have some fucking good record stores here! I live a stone's throw away from Other Music, Planet Records, Disc Diggers, Twisted Village, and Nuggets, to name but a few of the great independently- minded music shops around here.

So I found myself walking these Berkeley kids around Central Square, pointing at things and saying "See this bank? This used to be an anarchist bookstore. See this Gap and this Starbucks? This block used to be full of great independent coffeehouses." I felt terrible, and cheesy, a back-in-the-day geezer even though I'm in my 20s. But this small-town city is a part of me. Then I pointed them out to some interesting places that they should go. I cheer for the little independents around the city that are still thriving, and support them as much as I can. Central Square still does have things going for it. The Middle East, for one, (with many great & cheap shows this year!), Harvest, 1369 Coffeehouse, etc. I live near Davis Square now, which has got a good amount of independent coffeeshops, bookstores, and bars...good restaurants, and its own modest little art scene that isn't New York in scale but doesn't try to be. Everything here is in miniature, but there's something odd and wonderful about that sometimes.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living on a sinking ship--like this place has had it's day and now it's over. But that's like crying and saying that you'll never listen to an other band after the Pixies broke up, because they were the best band ever. (Mind you, I did this.) You've got to keep looking around for the interesting bits of life. And when I move out of here for good in August for grad school, I think I will miss it sorely, because for as many faults as Cambridge/Somerville/ Boston/etc have, they've still got a lot of good, and a lot that we take for granted.

And hey, if anyone is visiting the Boston area, send me an email and I'd be glad to show you around to all the glorious weird bits that still lie below the surface.

Really, a lot of the problems Boston has could be marked down to poor transportation infrastructure. Make it easier for people to go places and more people will consider going to them.

Hell, Seattle pretty much winds down at 2am on any given night, with the exception of a few later places... and that doesn't seem too, ur, restrictive... Or is everyone in Boston an excommunicatee from New York?

Same deal with OC.

What I define as "shutdown" time is the time where 80% of nightlife retail shuts down, therefore making barhopping, convenience store loitering, and various shopping vices difficult. The odd open late night joint or rock venue doesn't count.

I did arrive there when the weather became really good, so maybe that's why everyone along the way was so friendly (I'm talking passerbys here, not just friends). And the public transportation is good...

I'm very likely coming back for Terrastock in October...

Woo-hoo!

Note too that I don't need to trash other cities to defend here. The great things about Boston speak for themselves. If you want to hate Boston, it's easy to do, but it's also easy to do that anywhere. I know grass-is-always-greener type of people. But if you want to love Boston, it's really easy too. It's a great walking city with a lot of fun things to do.

People talk about the lack of integration, but I don't know how many of you have walked through the South End, where you'll see people from every continent in the world and other diverse backgrounds all on the same streets. And people say hello to you when you're walking down the street there. JP is really integrated too. Or check out Cambridge or Maverick Square in East Boston. Since the 1990 census, every area that had predominantly one racial group lost people from that group and gained people from other groups. We also have the university with the most nations represented (BU) of any university in the nation.

Things close at 2 and it's definitely annoying, but you can go to the North End, Chinatown, or certain bars after and hang around for most of the night. Boston's great in the day too. You're never more than two blocks from a great park of some waterfront, and there are some of the most beautiful skyline views in the world here. Check out the view from the East Boston waterfront, or the view when you're landing at the airport or the view from the Mass Ave Bridge. Walk along the harbor walk throughout the north end and South Boston.

As to friendly people, try really smiling and saying hi to people as you walk in the morning. Sure, many will look away or not say hi. I've tried the same experiment in a bunch of cities and that's true everywhere, but some people will say hi. And people are much more likely to say hi if you're just a bit further from downtown or the touristy areas- once you get into neighborhoods.

We definitely have great culture at a manageable size. We spend the most on culture per capita of any major city in the US. Our Symphony Hall is one of the three best, acoustically, in the world. Our Museum of Fine Arts has the second largest art collection in the Western Hemisphere. Then we also have several university art museums, the Museum of Bad Art, the world's largest outdoor modern art exhibition center (in the western part of the state), and a great sculpture park in Lincoln, MA.

Our local music scene is great. Listen to 101.7, WFNX radio, or the college stations and check out the bars around Central Square.

And it's a city of today. Where else can you find two of the nations top universities (three of the top 25) within four stops on a public transportation line? Where else do you have 5 of the top 10 hospitals in the nation? The largest music store in the world? The largest university library collection (the third largest library collection in general)? The most books per square mile in the nation (Harvard Square)? People who don't need to spend an hour getting ready to leave the house every morning? The city ranked healthiest in the nation by men's health? And the most liveable by some Swiss Magazine.

Then Massachusetts is ranked the second best place in the nation to raise a child for a combination of safety, education and other reasons. This is one of the best job markets in the nation, and has the most college-educated population of any state.

Boston brought you the telephone, the Internet, anasthesia, the nation's first subway, the nation's first post office, the nation's first police department, the nation's first YMCA, the birthplace of two churches, the bulk of 19th century literature.

Then let's talk about people. Harvard educated 7 of the nation's presidents. 4 presidents called MA home. Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X both called Boston home at one time or another. We were the birthplace of the abolitionist movement and a center of the women's rights movement. We are undoubtedly the nation's greatest sports town, but if you don't like sports, it's not hard to find ways to avoid them altogether.

We had the most breweries per capita in the nation at the turn of the 20th century. Today, we have much of the best beer again. Sam Adams is great and a tour of the brewery, including 4 samples of beer and a free souvenir glass is only $1.

We have two of the nation's top 10 beaches, aesthetically, within this state. 3 of the top four liberal arts colleges (including the best women's one). The best roller coaster in the world, according to Park World Magazine (at 6 flags New England). We have one of the lowest murder rates in the nation in this state, and we have been held up as a national example of crime prevention.

We've also been seen as a national example for tobacco prevention, public health, and foster care and adoption services.

This is a city filled with life and on the cusp of more great things. The completion of the Big Dig will bring beautiful parks. We're updating our waterfront, our airport, and our sports parks. There's construction all over the city. Sure the construction doesn't look that great, but it's a sign of a city that's very alive.

We have always been a leading architectural city in this nation, and our building codes work very hard to ensure we keep things to scale. That's why our tallest skyscraper is only 60 stories. We have architecture from 4 centuries here, from famous names including I.M. Pei and Le Corbusier (Harvard's campus is the only place in the nation with architecture from him). We have intricate sculptures on the storefronts in downtown crossing and the building fronts in the financial district. Our skyscrapers show a lot of variation. Trinity Church is considered one of the top 10 architectural structures in the nation.

our ice cream is great; try Herrel's in Harvard Square, especially for their frappes.

If you know where to look, we have every ethnic food imaginable. And we continue to keep the independent stores alive. Some unfortunately are being lost to chains, but we still have many. Check out places like Arlington Center and other small town centers for these. The strip mall is not as ubiquitous here as elsewhere, and we have nice town centers.

Then the history is awesome.

Also, we're actually not as expensive a place for housing as many had thought. Recent census info showed that.

So I have way too good a memory for this stuff. I love my city, and if you have a pre-determined opinion, it's easy to remember the stuff that confirms it.

I think the windy streets bring more life to the city. It's awesome that cows were urban planners, though the signs could be better.

There are plenty of nice people around here. Don't complain about their city so much, and you'll find more of them.

jp

But yeah, sounds like someone in California driving out to the desert or something.

if you see nyc as the center of the world then everywhere else including boston is outward, makes sense from that angle

A NYer who summered in the Berkshires and once drove the Mass Pike.

FAP anyone?

House / Disco dance party happening outside Boston city hall again right now 🪩

Hello Boston

hello!

My younger one is going to school there next year. It's maybe the biggest city I've spent the least amount of time in.

it's not a big college town...

My wife had the marathon on today. Love Boston.

I did not go into the office today because of the marathon

it's not a big college town...

We've been making this joke here for weeks.

did not go into the office today because of the marathon

The real winner.

Love the marathon so much

if the weather is halfway decent it's legitimately the best day of the year in the city

REVIVE

I have a friend who is looking to unload 6 tickets to see Jon Batiste at Tanglewood this Saturday. Anyone interested?

https://www.boston.com/food/food-news/2025/11/18/boston-michelin-guide/

One-star restaurants

311 Omakase, 605 Tremont St., South End

Bib Gourmand

Bar Volpe, 170 W. Broadway, South Boston

Fox & The Knife, 28 W. Broadway, South Boston

Jahunger, 272 Brookline St., Cambridge

Mahaniyom, 236 Washington St., Brookline

Pagu, 310 Massachusetts Ave., Cambridge

Sumiao Hunan Kitchen, 270 Third Ave., Cambridge

Recommended

Asta, 47 Massachusetts Ave., Back Bay

Carmelina’s, 307 Hanover St., North End

Giulia, 1682 Massachusetts Ave., Cambridge

La Padrona, 38 Trinity Place, Back Bay

Lenox Sophia, 87 A St., South Boston

Moëca, 1 Shephard St., Cambridge

Mooncusser, 304 Stuart St., Back Bay

Neptune Oyster, 63 Salem St., North End

Nightshade Noodle Bar, 73 Exchange St., Lynn

Oleana, 134 Hampshire St., Cambridge

Pammy’s, 928 Massachusetts Ave., Cambridge

Select Oyster Bar, 50 Gloucester St., Back Bay

Somaek, 11 Temple Place, Downtown Boston

Thistle & Leek, 105 Union St., Newton

Toro, 1704 Washington St., South End

Some good spots on this list, I hope Sumiao gets a lot more traffic out of this

nice to see select oyster bar on there, that place is a real gem in the back bay where most restaurants kind of suck.

Good list to have! Since one of my kids is there now I've been to Boston more times in the past year than I have in the past 30 years, but I still don't know much about the city, let alone the places to go. For example, are there (for lack of a better word) hip neighborhoods? My kid is decidedly not that, so she took us to Newbury Street, which was pretty tony but maybe not what I expected.

My friend's brother was a Top Chef guy that owns/runs a place called Mooncusser.

Davis Square in Somerville and Jamaica Plain are the first things that come to my mind as far as hip neighborhoods go. Parts of the South End. Allston has a vitality, lots of music clubs but overrun by students. The problem in the Boston area is that the things that typically make neighborhoods "hip" (thrift shops, book stores, antique places, dive bars) have been gentrified out of existence.

central square cambridge still pretty hip, and union square somerville is too. assembly square somerville is basically a giant outlet mall but there is a lot of things happening there even if it’s not necessarily hip.

I like Inman Square on the Cambridge/Somerville line, some good bars, ice cream shops, and local restaurants

union and inman are still cool

my gf is upset Oleana made the list but their sister restaurant Sarma did not.

davis has so many empty storefronts these days, kind of a bummer to see. the only enduringly 'hip' thing about it is the theater afaict

oh yeah I forgot Inman!

sarma is amazing, i think that was a miss

i feel they put a distinctive spice that carries through everything they make, so I think that can be a dealbreaker if you don’t like that seasoning.

i for one dislike how they do not, even after repeated personal requests, list on their menu that their bread sometimes has a giant jalapeño or equivalent pepper in it. i have to ask each time.

I also really like forage for the vegetarian tasting menu, although I do know the vegan tasting menu gets a lot of bad reviews from….vegans.

Yeah, Inman Square is a very cool enclave, hasn't changed much in the last 30 years or so. Lost an all-time dive (Abbey Lounge) but Trina's isn't a bad replacement. Wish Loren Ipsum Books was still around though. Good to see some of the Inman vibe starting to bleed down Cambridge Street into East Cambridge.

Fort Point was a pretty hip place in the late 90's/early aughts but the developers came in and pushed the artists out and now it's the soulless Seaport.

Sarma was great when we ate there outside at night during the pandemic.

Still the only place I've actually enjoyed brussel sprouts at.

Sarma is a real landmine for vegans due to their insistence on including labneh in everything

re: hip neighborhoods, co-signing Union Square and Inman Square. Malden Center has turned into an enclave of great Thai and Vietnamese restaurants and Allston is almost like nu-Chinatown. I don’t spend enough time in JP to have an opinion on it but there’s a dive bar called Midway Cafe there that’s very fun for live local music. I’m also extremely impressed by the balancing act Central Square has made between gentrification and retaining its original character; it’s one of my favorite places in the city to go, especially since Manray is back.

bj winter otm!

Central has lost a number of bedrock institutions the last few years (The Field, People's Republik, River Gods, TT The Bear's, Mary Chung's) but keeps bouncing back. The Cantab Lounge is one of the area's best music venues, and the Middle East hangs in there, despite all the developer attention that corner gets.

Davis Square in Somerville and Jamaica Plain are the first things that come to my mind as far as hip neighborhoods go. Parts of the South End. Allston has a vitality, lots of music clubs but overrun by students. The problem in the Boston area is that the things that typically make neighborhoods "hip" (thrift shops, book stores, antique places, dive bars) have been gentrified out of existence.

― henry s, Wednesday, November 19, 2025 5:51 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

co-signing JP. lived there for 3 years and would have stayed forever if not for the fact that I promised my wife we’d move to LA

really good food there too. I’m surprised tonino, the italian spot that opened a few years ago, isn’t on that michelin guide. it’s fantastic and has gotten a ton of good press elsewhere

Brendan Behan Pub one of the best Irish bars in an area known for them.

I lived down the street and was a regular there! amazing people

A British friend took me there one night for a "drinking session." (i.e. we take turns buying rounds of pints.) We each had 4 pints, then he says, OK ready to start? Worst hangover ever the next day.

Cantab lounge is great, check out the weekly poetry open mic in the basement that’s been running for over 3 decades if you ever get the chance.

it’s a couple years old now but the bike path extension from lechmere to davis is so great/convenient for running/walking / biking.

Right, and it connects to the bike path that goes under the Zakim bridge and crosses the Charles via those locks. I love checking out the skate park as I cross over the railroad tracks.

Yeah that area is fun as it is almost always full of skaters and duck boats passing through.

If you add the minuteman rail trail connection you have a straight shot from Bedford to North Station and back.

I’m leaving Davis Square after nearly a decade. Back to
Union Square. It’s a new build behind the Target.

That new glassy building in Boynton Yards?

Sounds like we need to do an evening at Vera‘s or Backbar

Nearby! This is the website:

https://vergesomerville.com/

I’m down for Vera’s or Backbar! Are you still in Somerville DJP?

I am, in Winter Hill. I’m in Union a lot, I’ve got a friend from college who lives there.

ah verge is right by twin city plaza and beautiful McGrath highway, i know the area well :)