"Whether they would have confidence in a man having a pill every day is another thing."

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3167090.stm

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I never remember mine & everytime I tell J I have missed one by accident he cheers as there might be a chance of a baby!!
I wouldn't trust anyone else other than myself with this.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha ha BOOYAH sorry no li'l sistah for you tonight son

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Important difference:

A woman on the pill has sex and forgets to take the pill the next day - she can get pregnant from it (as far as I recall)

A man on the pill has sex and forgets to take the pill the next day - she can't.

So with the male pill the only way the woman can conceive is if the man actually lies or somehow thinks he's taken it when he hasn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I suppose just take it every morning like you would a vitamin, to get in the habit. Now there's a supplement for you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

This will not work until they start putting spermicide supplements in breakfast cereals.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 6 October 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

But the process also turns off the man's own testosterone production - so he needs to be given extra doses of the hormone to keep him healthy and maintain his sex drive.

So, if he says he has a "headache", tis a toss up between lack of libido and his going through withdrawal?

Sucking up my cheer for this pill: name any guy who will remember to keep to the routine in the first place? Usually, remembering to put on his socks THEN his shoes is enough of a struggle in the morning.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Monday, 6 October 2003 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck this nonsense.

― TOMBOT, Monday, 6 October 2003 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i would so be into this. it would be a bottomer if it made you impotent tho

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Men lying in order to get sex? NEVAH!!!

It just smacks to me of a bad idea. But what do I know?

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I am kind of disturbed by the way some women think men could almost be expected to deceive about something with such serious consequences. It would be naive to think it would never happen, but it would be some seriously shitty thing to do.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah but if you've got a guy with his thing in his hand & a girl says 'you have taken your pill haven't you?' if he has forgotten, there is no way he is going to say 'you're right, i'll just put this huge, angry thing away!'

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Err yeah - there is.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Men doing some SERIOUSLY SHITTY THING on a regular basis without even thinking about it? NEVAH!!!

Good god, N, for such a slut, you sure are naive sometimes.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not trying to take the moral high ground. What I find disturbing is your and PP's complicity in all this. Despite the 'bastard' routine, the casual acceptance that 'this is the way things will be' suggests to me that in fact you'd do the same thing as these feckless men you're half-moaning about.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

OK - 'your and PP's complicity' is a bit strong. It's early in the morning and people looking over my shoulder and leading me to hit submit without reviewing things.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, you know what? Ultimately, it's women who get pregnant, so it's women, physically and metaphorically who get left holding the sodding baby.

Would I "do the same thing" if I were a "bastard" man? I don't know. I'd love to have the freedom from responsibility that men seem to have when it comes to sexual relationships. Yes, I would like to have that, emotionally as well as physically.

Does that mean that women would be "just as bad as men" given half a chance? I think that logic is fairly spurious. But like you said, it's early and my brain is a bit fogged before I start talking about genetic survival strategies and amphibian mating patterns whereby the males are left holding the sodding babies.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the seahorse yadda yadda...

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Where did I say that the consequences of unwanted pregnancy were the same for a man as a woman?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Kate is otm, women have the respoinsibility if there is a pregnancy. If you are not that way inclined N, well good for you. (not meant sarcastically) Most men (esp younger men) do not have that responsible gene in them! Simply, it is my body & my life & i would not want to put that into someone elses hands. (this of course means if i was in & out of casual relationships. As it stands for me at the moment, I would totally trust J with it, although I would probably have to remind him sometimes. That said, he has to remind me sometimes!)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

And I wasn't asking you to imagine yourself as a man - I was alluding to the situation of you as a woman lying to a man about having taken your pill (which I know for you is hypothetical too IIRC, oh God I have been on ILE too long!). No, I don't think that's quite as bad as a man doing it but it's still pretty bad, especially given that reliance on pills as contraception is more often (well OK, preferably) used in committed relationships than with casual partners.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

basically it comes down to the fact that i trust myself first. i like to be in control of my own life, and i'd hate to be depending on someone else when i don't know if they're incomptent. if anything fucks up in my life, i'd rather it were from my own foolishness.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

HSA can't even remember to eat breakfast, do you think I'm going to trust him with my reproductive health? Probably not. Ever. This doesn't mean that I don't trust or love or otherwise respect him, it just means that I know him well enough to know how poor his memory is.

The onus for birth control has always been and probably unfortunately always will be on the woman, simply because of biology. I mean, yes, over the past decade or two, there has been an upswing in men actually bothering to take the lead in contraception, but is it because of their increased awareness of birth control or responsibility? No, it's because of AIDS. There's a difference between taking responsibility for creating a life in someone else, and taking responsibility for preventing your own death. And the horrible thing is, most men can't even be bothered to do the latter. So trust them with the former?

Cross-post, but to answer N's point above, sure women lie about having taken The Pill. But when they do, it's because they WANT to get pregnant for whatever reason, not because they want sex so much they're willing to lie about it. OK, that's a generalisation, but one that bears thinking about.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

That's totally fair enough, di. I meant to say that put in control terms, I totally understand the attitude.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

God, men are bastards anyway, etc. etc.

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Di's post is exactly the reason i'd be first in line to take this pill also.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

RJG, i don't know if thats aimed at me or not, but for me it isn't about gender. eg i hate doing group work at uni cos i hate the idea of someone else jeopardising my grades. stuff like that.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Well yes, which is why I'll be signing up for this as soon as possible. I have had a VERY bad experience with a partner genuinely (but repeatedly) forgetting to take her pill and then persistently lying about it.

― TykciR, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

My main problem with this is having to get doses of testosterone. I know that my hormone production has an annual cycle which it adheres to rather well and to be as horny in February as I am in August/September (or to be as unconcerned vice versa) would throw me for a loop. I don't trust a flat, regular dosage to keep me happy or sane, fucking around with testosterone levels is a good way to become depressed and suicidal and grow bitch tits and I'm frankly not interested.

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I understand and agree with your point, di.

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I would never lie about forgetting to take my pill. Each time I forget, I let J know, I couldn't imagine sneaking around & lying about it though.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, some people do, Pink, that's all I'm saying. I couldn't imagine lying about it either.

― TykciR, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I guess if you're not in a full on committed relationship, the rule should be that you are both responsible for the contraception! i.e. if a girl says she's on the pill, well use somethign else anyway!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Well yeah my point there was re: STDs.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The whole std issue aside i mean! of course you should be using those anyway, but talking about the pregnancy issue here.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Both parties on the pill and him wearing a condom.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.gtds.com/images/wetsuit.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Kenan doesn't have alot of sex!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I do! ...with fish...

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry that was a bit harsh. Kenan has some sex but without the need for contraception! :-)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

But how can women trust a man when he says "I am wearing an entire diving costume"????

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

the worst thing is when you put your money in the machine but only then realise it's out of snorkels

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.pussysnorkel.com/images/jadenew.jpg

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: doses of hormones, welcome to the wonderful world of taking female birth control pills which make you, in my experience, fat, paranoid, depressed, easily upset, constantly on your fucking period, etc etc. I have had to switch pills about 47 times in my life now cos none of them do anything to me but make me completely miserable. At least the one I'm on now isn't making me bleed nonstop like the last one, jesus god, but I've definitely gained weight from the stupid thing but since I just switched (again) like two months ago I'm just going to assume that my body is still "getting used to it" (yeah, the favorite thing for OBGYNs to say ever, six months into incredible pain and horrible side effects, "Oh that's your body getting used to it", it's more like my body waging fucking war against it). That is of course why I guess I'd not trust dudes to actually take this; I have a much higher endurance for chronic physical discomfort than like any of the men I know--if I didn't I'd have thrown out the things by now and just gotten an emergency prescription for RU486 just in case. Yes, I'm a horrible person, etc.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd gladly get sterilized and just, like, make my sister carry my baby if/when I wanted one, if the doctors would allow that but apparently that's not allowed (I asked).

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

(my sister wasn't crazy about that idea either)

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

ally's pill troubles are the exact reason i quit the pill. i didn't care that i put on weight, cos my weight fluctuates anyway. i didn't like being depressed and constantly bleeding.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd gladly get sterilized and just, like, make my sister carry my baby if/when I wanted one, if the doctors would allow that but apparently that's not allowed (I asked).

It's not? Prolly not unless it was incredibly necessary (as in having that baby would kill the mother). Figures. Are you sure the doc wasn't just watching his/her bottom line? (Can't help the cynicism)

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

ally's pill troubles are the exact reason i quit the pill. i didn't care that i put on weight, cos my weight fluctuates anyway. i didn't like being depressed and constantly bleeding.

Ally and Di are OTM, except I now feel badly that the worst thing that occurred for me (when being on the pill) was actually remembering to take the damn thing....which I sometimes forgot, I admit, rushing to work.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

No, they won't perform sterlization on a woman who hasn't already had a child. CYA--they don't want to be sued by a woman who changes her mind later (I don't quite see how come a man couldn't do this, I'm assuming it's easier to "reverse" a vasectomy).

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

No, they're still very iffy about 'fixing' men who haven't already had children either. It's a very, very touchy issue. My friend Dan was going to have this done and they wouldn't let him.

Anyway this illustrates I suppose the only good use I could think of for the male pill - an alternative to the female pill in committed relationships where the woman doesn't do well on birth control. As much as I dread the idea of having my masculine essence administered in doses by a resident I suspect any problems I could have with it are quite minor compared to, say, bleeding a lot.

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I know three different people who have gone and got vasectomies without having children first! They had no hassle at all. Maybe the doctor just wants Dan to procreate a master race or something? Anyway I don't actually want to get sterlized now anyway so I guess the doctor had a poin about sterilizing 17 year old girls.

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course there are positive side effects to be had as well of birth control pills. Di, out of curiousity what type were you on when you bled all the time?

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Both parties take the pill. Problem solved.

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Not if I'm bleeding and he's got boy-boobies!

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

A couple of my friends get the once-a-year shot, and say that there are no major negative side-effects.

Male contraception sounds grand (I shudder to think about the results of me being a father), but I can't even remember to take a multivitamin once a day.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

mercilon 28. on a side note, the whole "pill" experience made me very distrustful of doctors. i was giving up smoking at the time and my blood pressure was really dodgy - my doctor just kept prescribing it for me and telling me not to worry about the blood pressure. two years later, they discover that women are like DYING under the same conditions. FUCK YOU medical science.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The once-a-year shot can have one massive negative side effect, besides potentially the other ones mentioned: it's the most likely way to cause long term infertility (my aunt is going through this right now).

The pill thing makes me quite distrustful too, but it's like that with a lot of things involving the whole female reproductive schema: it's all in yr head, you'll get used to it, blah blah blah. Meanwhile your uterus is like ready to fall out.

― Ally (mlescaut), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i really think we'd all be better off if we just stuck to mutual masturbation

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

...or doin' it in the butt.

http://www.a-arca.com/pipoca/criticas/images/pipoca_criticas_theladiesman_01.gif

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh no! Ass baby!

― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

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