Insomnia cures

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Is there any particular thing that you guys do when you have trouble getting to sleep at night?

Dan Perry, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't suffer much from that, happily, but occasionally I have my moments. Usually I just wait it out, but if it's really bad and I'm feeling bored, I either read a book for a bit or maybe check e-mail -- just kill a little time and hope that the natural impulse to sleep returns...

Ned Raggett, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Smoke cigarettes, listen to music. At least that's what I did last night.

Ally, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dont ever sleep. Its too fancy.

Mike Hanle y, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Read. This sometimes doesn't work, but at least I'm keeping my head occupied and not worrying about whether or not I'll be able to get back to sleep or not.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

For those of you with cable, CSPAN can do the trick, or any other program with government idiots talking.

Tom Porrino, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

no caffeine after 3pm, keeping to fairly set time pattern when you get up/go to bed, establish certain bed-time rituals (eg warm milky drink + book), exercise in the day (even if only going for a walk for 30 mins), avoid alcohol for a time, + all else fails there is Melatonin (but don't over do it)

Dr Stevo - regular insomniac.

stevo, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

When I can't sleep, I drink.

Otis Wheeler, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

surfer ILM and ILE while eating peak freens and milk
i never get to bed before 3 am.

anthony, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Metaphysics.

Josh, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

masturbate, watch infomercials, masturbate in front of christian televangelists, smoke, read, listen to radio national, forget about sleeping for 3 days and enjoy the manic high for what its worth etc.

Geoff, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, if it's cause it's hot out, I take a shower and lie in bed all wet with the fan on. Doesn't always work, but it usually makes me feel a bit better.

Arthur, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Listen to Henry Cow.

Joe, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

don't worry if you can't sleep. 'It's not as bad as having a bucket of blood filled with knives and forks thrown over your head.'

maryann, Monday, 2 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Watching Baseball on Channel 5 at 2 in the morning should send all but the hardened insominiac into a deep slumber.

Pete, Monday, 2 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...
I tried the weather channel last night. That usually helps on days when I am only half awake and can't sleep. For nights where my eyes are glued open I have not yet found a cure.

Kat Odette, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...
I was all set to sleep and then the cat made an awful noise and I have spent many hours in bed feeling too hot, too uncosy, too distrurbed by the birds outside and counting down the hours till I have to get up for work (currently three). I am now taking Ally's 'advice' but it is completely useless. I am wide awake. I suppose I should read a book.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

two words: Das Kapital

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Sadly I don't have a copy to hand and I don't think sitting up reading on a computer screen would have the same effect.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you tried drinking alcohol?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you tried drinking Nyquil, more specifically?

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

SECTION 1


THE TWO FACTORS OF A COMMODITY:
USE-VALUE AND VALUE
(IN WHICH KARL ANALYSES HIS OATS)


The wealth of those societies in which the capitalist mode of production prevails, presents itself as "an immense accumulation of commodities," [1] its unit being a single commodity. Our investigation must therefore begin with the analysis of a commodity.

A commodity is, in the first place, an object outside us, a thing that by its properties satisfies human wants of some sort or another. The nature of such wants, whether, for instance, they spring from the stomach or from fancy, makes no difference. [2] Neither are we here concerned to know how the object satisfies these wants, whether directly as means of subsistence, or indirectly as means of production.

Every useful thing, as iron, paper, &c., may be looked at from the two points of view of quality and quantity. It is an assemblage of many properties, and may therefore be of use in various ways. To discover the various uses of things is the work of history. [3] So also is the establishment of socially-recognized standards of measure for the quantities of these useful objects. The diversity of these measures has its origin partly in the diverse nature of the objects to be measured, partly in convention.

The utility of a thing makes it a use-value. [4] But this utility is not a thing of air. Being limited by the physical properties of the commodity, it has no existence apart from that commodity. A commodity, such as iron, corn, or a diamond, is therefore, so far as it is a material thing, a use-value, something useful. This property of a commodity is independent of the amount of labour required to appropriate its useful qualities. When treating of use-value, we always assume to be dealing with definite quantities, such as dozens of watches, yards of linen, or tons of iron. The use-values of commodities furnish the material for a special study, that of the commercial knowledge of commodities. [5] Use-values become a reality only by use or consumption: they also constitute the substance of all wealth, whatever may be the social form of that wealth. In the form of society we are about to consider, they are, in addition, the material depositories of exchange-value.

Exchange-value, at first sight, presents itself as a quantitative relation, as the proportion in which values in use of one sort are exchanged for those of another sort, [6] a relation constantly changing with time and place. Hence exchange-value appears to be something accidental and purely relative, and consequently an intrinsic value, i.e., an exchange-value that is inseparably connected with, inherent in commodities, seems a contradiction in terms. [7] Let us consider the matter a little more closely.

A given commodity, e.g., a quarter of wheat is exchanged for x blacking, y silk, or z gold, &c. — in short, for other commodities in the most different proportions. Instead of one exchange-value, the wheat has, therefore, a great many. But since x blacking, y silk, or z gold &c., each represents the exchange-value of one quarter of wheat, x blacking, y silk, z gold, &c., must, as exchange-values, be replaceable by each other, or equal to each other. Therefore, first: the valid exchange-values of a given commodity express something equal; secondly, exchange-value, generally, is only the mode of expression, the phenomenal form, of something contained in it, yet distinguishable from it.

Let us take two commodities, e.g., corn and iron. The proportions in which they are exchangeable, whatever those proportions may be, can always be represented by an equation in which a given quantity of corn is equated to some quantity of iron: e.g., 1 quarter corn = x cwt. iron. What does this equation tell us? It tells us that in two different things — in 1 quarter of corn and x cwt. of iron, there exists in equal quantities something common to both. The two things must therefore be equal to a third, which in itself is neither the one nor the other. Each of them, so far as it is exchange-value, must therefore be reducible to this third.

A simple geometrical illustration will make this clear. In order to calculate and compare the areas of rectilinear figures, we decompose them into triangles. But the area of the triangle itself is expressed by something totally different from its visible figure, namely, by half the product of the base multiplied by the altitude. In the same way the exchange-values of commodities must be capable of being expressed in terms of something common to them all, of which thing they represent a greater or less quantity.

This common "something" cannot be either a geometrical, a chemical, or any other natural property of commodities. Such properties claim our attention only in so far as they affect the utility of those commodities, make them use-values. But the exchange of commodities is evidently an act characterised by a total abstraction from use-value. Then one use-value is just as good as another, provided only it be present in sufficient quantity. Or, as old Barbon says, "one sort of wares are as good as another, if the values be equal. There is no difference or distinction in things of equal value.... An hundred pounds' worth of lead or iron, is of as great value as one hundred pounds' worth of silver or gold." [8] As use-values, commodities are, above all, of different qualities, but as exchange-values they are merely different quantities, and consequently do not contain an atom of use-value.

If then we leave out of consideration the use-value of commodities, they have only one common property left, that of being products of labour. But even the product of labour itself has undergone a change in our hands. If we make abstraction from its use-value, we make abstraction at the same time from the material elements and shapes that make the product a use-value; we see in it no longer a table, a house, yarn, or any other useful thing. Its existence as a material thing is put out of sight. Neither can it any longer be regarded as the product of the labour of the joiner, the mason, the spinner, or of any other definite kind of productive labour. Along with the useful qualities of the products themselves, we put out of sight both the useful character of the various kinds of labour embodied in them, and the concrete forms of that labour; there is nothing left but what is common to them all; all are reduced to one and the same sort of labour, human labour in the abstract.

Let us now consider the residue of each of these products; it consists of the same unsubstantial reality in each, a mere congelation of homogeneous human labour, of labour-power expended without regard to the mode of its expenditure. All that these things now tell us is, that human labour-power has been expended in their production, that human labour is embodied in them. When looked at as crystals of this social substance, common to them all, they are — Values.

We have seen that when commodities are exchanged, their exchange-value manifests itself as something totally independent of their use-value. But if we abstract from their use-value, there remains their Value as defined above. Therefore, the common substance that manifests itself in the exchange-value of commodities, whenever they are exchanged, is their value. The progress of our investigation will show that exchange-value is the only form in which the value of commodities can manifest itself or be expressed. For the present, however, we have to consider the nature of value independently of this, its form.

A use-value, or useful article, therefore, has value only because human labour in the abstract has been embodied or materialised in it. How, then, is the magnitude of this value to be measured? Plainly, by the quantity of the value-creating substance, the labour, contained in the article. The quantity of labour, however, is measured by its duration, and labour-time in its turn finds its standard in weeks, days, and hours.

Some people might think that if the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of labour spent on it, the more idle and unskilful the labourer, the more valuable would his commodity be, because more time would be required in its production. The labour, however, that forms the substance of value, is homogeneous human labour, expenditure of one uniform labour-power. The total labour-power of society, which is embodied in the sum total of the values of all commodities produced by that society, counts here as one homogeneous mass of human labour-power, composed though it be of innumerable individual units. Each of these units is the same as any other, so far as it has the character of the average labour-power of society, and takes effect as such; that is, so far as it requires for producing a commodity, no more time than is needed on an average, no more than is socially necessary. The labour-time socially necessary is that required to produce an article under the normal conditions of production, and with the average degree of skill and intensity prevalent at the time. The introduction of power-looms into England probably reduced by one-half the labour required to weave a given quantity of yarn into cloth. The hand-loom weavers, as a matter of fact, continued to require the same time as before; but for all that, the product of one hour of their labour represented after the change only half an hour's social labour, and consequently fell to one-half its former value.

We see then that that which determines the magnitude of the value of any article is the amount of labour socially necessary, or the labour-time socially necessary for its production. [9] Each individual commodity, in this connexion, is to be considered as an average sample of its class. [10] Commodities, therefore, in which equal quantities of labour are embodied, or which can be produced in the same time, have the same value. The value of one commodity is to the value of any other, as the labour-time necessary for the production of the one is to that necessary for the production of the other. "As values, all commodities are only definite masses of congealed labour-time." [11]

The value of a commodity would therefore remain constant, if the labour-time required for its production also remained constant. But the latter changes with every variation in the productiveness of labour. This productiveness is determined by various circumstances, amongst others, by the average amount of skill of the workmen, the state of science, and the degree of its practical application, the social organisation of production, the extent and capabilities of the means of production, and by physical conditions. For example, the same amount of labour in favourable seasons is embodied in 8 bushels of corn, and in unfavourable, only in four. The same labour extracts from rich mines more metal than from poor mines. Diamonds are of very rare occurrence on the earth's surface, and hence their discovery costs, on an average, a great deal of labour-time. Consequently much labour is represented in a small compass. Jacob doubts whether gold has ever been paid for at its full value. This applies still more to diamonds. According to Eschwege, the total produce of the Brazilian diamond mines for the eighty years, ending in 1823, had not realised the price of one and-a-half years' average produce of the sugar and coffee plantations of the same country, although the diamonds cost much more labour, and therefore represented more value. With richer mines, the same quantity of labour would embody itself in more diamonds, and their value would fall. If we could succeed at a small expenditure of labour, in converting carbon into diamonds, their value might fall below that of bricks. In general, the greater the productiveness of labour, the less is the labour-time required for the production of an article, the less is the amount of labour crystallised in that article, and the less is its value; and vice versâ, the less the productiveness of labour, the greater is the labour-time required for the production of an article, and the greater is its value. The value of a commodity, therefore, varies directly as the quantity, and inversely as the productiveness, of the labour incorporated in it.

A thing can be a use-value, without having value. This is the case whenever its utility to man is not due to labour. Such are air, virgin soil, natural meadows, &c. A thing can be useful, and the product of human labour, without being a commodity. Whoever directly satisfies his wants with the produce of his own labour, creates, indeed, use-values, but not commodities. In order to produce the latter, he must not only produce use-values, but use-values for others, social use-values. (And not only for others, without more. The mediaeval peasant produced quit-rent-corn for his feudal lord and tithe-corn for his parson. But neither the quit-rent-corn nor the tithe-corn became commodities by reason of the fact that they had been produced for others. To become a commodity a product must be transferred to another, whom it will serve as a use-value, by means of an exchange.) [12] Lastly nothing can have value, without being an object of utility. If the thing is useless, so is the labour contained in it; the labour does not count as labour, and therefore creates no value.


No, you're right. Good night.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Yessss!

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh no - 'They Don't Know' came on iTunes and I am wide awake again. Chapter 1, Section ii calls.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

stars of the lid an monitor constrast low

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Monday, 25 February 2008 07:43 (seventeen years ago)

I got naff all sleep last night due to insomnia. I'm dreading the working day.

the next grozart, Monday, 25 February 2008 08:03 (seventeen years ago)

two months pass...

how do i turn my brain off

Lingbert, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:28 (seventeen years ago)

heroic intake of cocktails

electricsound, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:29 (seventeen years ago)

For me, drinking a bottle of beer or two usually helps me get some sleep, if I can't get it otherwise.

Tuomas, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:30 (seventeen years ago)

i had six cups of coffee yesterday and spent most of the night in a half asleep state having feverdreams about mellotron samples

electricsound, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:30 (seventeen years ago)

not conducive to quality sleep

electricsound, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:31 (seventeen years ago)

And if you only drink one or two bottles, there's no hangover.

Tuomas, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:31 (seventeen years ago)

(xx-post)

Tuomas, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:31 (seventeen years ago)

Every cure for insomnia is worse than the disease. Make productive use of the awake time.

libcrypt, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:32 (seventeen years ago)

i've considered the beer or cocktail trick, but i've always avoided it because i don't want to make it a habit.

libcrypt seems wise

Lingbert, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:38 (seventeen years ago)

but not wise enough to turn my brain off. i don't hold it against him, though.

Lingbert, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:39 (seventeen years ago)

Every cure for insomnia is worse than the disease. Make productive use of the awake time.

Er, I don't think the people who suffer from chronic insomnia would agree with this. From what I've heard it can be pretty awful.

Tuomas, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:46 (seventeen years ago)

whatever, you're drunk.

Kerm, Monday, 12 May 2008 06:58 (seventeen years ago)

???

Tuomas, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:03 (seventeen years ago)

hi dere this thread is relevant to my interests

gbx, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:05 (seventeen years ago)

Melatonin, as sold by Trader Joe's in convenient tasty mints.

My favorite part about melatonin is that you can be working on something or just fucking around, take it, then go about your business, then in about thirty minutes you're all "wow, I'm tired as shit" then go blissfully to bed.

en i see kay, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:13 (seventeen years ago)

i gotta get me some of this ^^^ stuff when i get to the US - can't get it in nz.

Rubyredd, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:40 (seventeen years ago)

does it give you crazy dreams/nightmares? because i already have enough of that.

Rubyredd, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:41 (seventeen years ago)

I sometimes have crazy dreams when I take it, but never nightmares. Then again, I'm not a big nightmare dude, so ymmv.

en i see kay, Monday, 12 May 2008 07:46 (seventeen years ago)

I always forget why I don't drink to get to sleep--it's because three hours later I'm waking urgently to take a gigantic, heroic piss and can never settle into the proper mental state for sleep until maybe an hour before work.

I really need some kind of sleep solution that is not a sleeping pill. I'm fairly prone to addiction with these, drinking backfires, exercise doesn't work, reading winds me up. The only surefire method I've found is watching a very long movie, the downside being that they're very long and I'm just losing more precious time to sleep.

I'm stumped.

RabiesAngentleman, Monday, 12 May 2008 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

Over the last few nights, I’ve been listening to audio books, saves holding a book and you can get comfy in the dark. It seems to work for me. Have tried weed, but it started with one, then I’d need two etc… same with beer really. Now it’s a green tea and some strange mans voice.

not_goodwin, Monday, 12 May 2008 11:52 (seventeen years ago)

Weed just goes psychoactive instead of soporific after a certain point, especially if you are stressed in any way about the lack of sleep. Valerian tea is doable for us who can't get melatonin and don't mind how awful the tea smells.

suzy, Monday, 12 May 2008 11:58 (seventeen years ago)

Valerian tea! People recommend this to me and I completely forget about it every time.

RabiesAngentleman, Monday, 12 May 2008 12:41 (seventeen years ago)

a cup of chamomile tea with 3 tea bags steepd for 10 minutes, extra amount of melatonin and a bit of alcohol of some sort ealier, usually works for me. not this time though. hi birds, hi sun.

the only thing that's ever ACTALLY helped me was ambien. but it also fucked me up pretty intensely. other sleep meds have little to no effect.

gregory first world, Monday, 12 May 2008 12:54 (seventeen years ago)

A peanut butter sandwich and a couple benadryl would probably do the trick for me if I ever had trouble falling asleep.

Kerm, Monday, 12 May 2008 13:03 (seventeen years ago)

I will take anything at the moment that doesn't involve drinking two or three bottles of red...

S-, Monday, 12 May 2008 13:04 (seventeen years ago)

I think a big problem for me is that I work overnights so when I need to be going to bed the sun is just coming up and having its effect on my brain, a bit of bad medication for someone who has another 10-11 hour graveyard shift just around the corner.

RabiesAngentleman, Monday, 12 May 2008 13:14 (seventeen years ago)

dark side of the moon. [Started by piscesboy, last updated 1 minute ago] 15 new answers

Tom D., Monday, 12 May 2008 13:14 (seventeen years ago)

HAW, advice noted.

RabiesAngentleman, Monday, 12 May 2008 13:19 (seventeen years ago)

nine months pass...

Oh dear fuck melatonin is just a bad idea. Esp when it's only gonna me maybe another two hours sleep at the cost of feeling narced all goddamn day.

Ah well, best just to not interact with irl people too much today, if i can help it.

speaking as a mwahahahaha (Upt0eleven), Monday, 9 March 2009 09:50 (sixteen years ago)

two words: Das Kapital

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:27 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark

shit kept me awake tbh

been HOOS, where yyyou steene!? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 9 March 2009 10:00 (sixteen years ago)

i was just so INTERESTD

been HOOS, where yyyou steene!? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 9 March 2009 10:00 (sixteen years ago)

Does melatonin really work? I have a bunch of it and it just never seems to be strong enough for me.

u s steel, Monday, 9 March 2009 19:05 (sixteen years ago)

Melatonin works, yes, but I agree the aftereffect is especially troublesome. I have some OTC sleeping pills and those don't take as long to wear off as melatonin seems to.

Sleep Tundra (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Monday, 9 March 2009 20:18 (sixteen years ago)


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