Memory worries

It's happened to me before, on a small scale, and it's usually come back to me later. But yesterday I forgot my internet banking id. I've been using it about three times a week for two years, and had used it that very morning, but 5 hours later I went to type it in again.... and I drew a blank. I knew what some of the numbers were, but I typed all sorts of strings, and failed miserably. I tried again today, and again failed to dredge it up. So I've given up and applied for a new one (they didn't tell me they would post it out and would take up to three days to arrive, but that's another matter entirely)

I feel like a complete div, but am I just getting old?

the mark s dexxion shelving theory of mind

see the thing abt dexxion shelving = it is easy to put up and looks grebt in an industrial stylee, but because the shelves are deep it encourages you to try and pack too much on them and then stuff falls down the back and they are heavy so you have to poke it out w. a stick and sometimes it won't go

this = yr brane and memory, the new stuff pushes the old stuff so it falls down the back and it's still there but you can't get it with a stick

Nice theory, Mark S, but actually proven by science is that memory is a matter of exercise like anything else. The more you use your memory, the more recall you have. Memory dropouts occur if you do not exercise your memory, or if you concentrate on only exercising a certain kind of memory.

Remember, also, there are various kinds of memory - data memory vs. procedural memory and loads more. It's possible to lose one kind of memory but not another - which is why amnesia victims don't forget how to breath or how to play piano. It may be that things like PIN codes are procedural memories - you remember them as the pattern that you punch on the keypad. So if you are asked to recall them as data - the actual numbers, you can't do it. The memory comes back when you just attempt the procedure rather than trying to access it as data.

I have had this before Vicky. I have had the same user id for about 3 years on a particular prog at work. One day I tried to say it out loud rather than just type it & I couldn't remember it at all. It's like I can type it no probs, but to actually verbalise it is nearly impossible!

actually, the mark theory isn't too far off from a 'scientific' one i heard recently. apparently, memory is like a load of filing cabinets. when something is in short term memory, it's in the 'in' box sitting on top in no real order, not very organised.

stuff that is actually 'filed' in your mind (like your bank ID if you use it regularly and have for a while) get pulled out of the file cabinet whenever you need to access the info. usually, it gets filed in the same place every time when you're done. but if something happens during the process, the file can get put somewhere weird and it's much harder to find.

my boy told me this, and i'm sure there is much more to it. he'd have read it in the new scientist, probably, so maybe worth reading there if you're interested.

there's actually a lot of interesting research on the topic right now, companies are fighting it out to make memory-improving drugs because it'll be such a money maker as the boomers age...

bah i exercise my memory the WHOLE TIME!! but still when i try and fill my head w.new facts the old ones get pushed off down behind!! DON'T BUST YR HEAD! FOR IT IS BALLOON-FORM AND WILL POP OFF AND FLY ROUND THE ROOM MAKING A BAD NOISE!!

after qwerty i can't say the order of the keys but i can type w/o looking, so fingers obv do know when head doesn't

That's really weird, Vicky, because I forgot my bank card pin number yesterday. I was standing in the queue and just couldn't remember it (I've had it for 2 years) and the more I thought about it, the more possible four-number variations I came up with. I thought maybe once I got to the machine I'd remember but I didn't. And I still haven't remembered it today. So I'm just getting money out as cashback at the supermarket.

i blame derren brown

Typing is a perfect example of procedural memory. (At least touch typing is - it also shows how much faster procedural memory can be than data retrival memory, as evidenced by how touch typists are faster than hunt and peck typists.)

As is learning to play a musical instrument. In fact, the aim of practice is to get songs out of data retrival memory into procedural memory. If you're still thinking about what chord you're playing when, then it's not going to flow. "Playing from memory" is a bit of a misnomer, because generally you're not playing from standard memory, you're playing from procedural memory.

Your pin number blanks are the result of trying to turn procedural memory back into data retrival memory.

As strange as it sounds, try *not* thinking about it, and it will come back to you. Lateral thinking. I often forget words - really common, ordinary words that I use all the time. I'll be in the middle of a conversation and be totally unable to recall a word, grasping at words that are synonyms or hominyms - "Ship! Flat boat! Canals! You know...!" I'll stutter until the person I am talking to suggests the word I'm looking for. If that doesn't happen, then several minutes later, after the conversation has moved on, I'll suddenly blurt out "barge" and the other person will look at me like I have three heads.

So I can blame that on my memory & not drugs when I was younger?