Yankees Superfracas

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What the floo? Pedro throws Don Zimmer to the ground? Pedro threatens to hit the head of other Yankees? Jeff Nelson stomps a groundskeeper? WHTF?!

Mike Hanle y (mike), Sunday, 12 October 2003 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

sounds like just another Premiership match...

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 12 October 2003 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Don Zimmer rocks. He was like a little bald bull out there. I think Martinez just freaked and went into self-defense mode. Not that that's going to make any difference next time Pedro's in NYC. He'd better hire him some big ol' bodyguards, if he can find anyone in New York who'll take his money. Don Zimmer's like the official city mascot.

spittle, Sunday, 12 October 2003 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Zim had that one coming. Glad he wasn't hurt worse though.

Hunter (Hunter), Sunday, 12 October 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

interestingly enough ... and those of us with long memories will attest to this ... don zimmer was the red sox manager in 1978 (the bucky dent year).

re this fracas -- yet another reason why Boston (the town) sucks

Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Sunday, 12 October 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

But which fracas, Tad?

Granted, Pedro acted like one of those Duquettian social pariahs (cf. Jose Canseco, Carl Everett, Mike Lansing, Dante Bichette, etc etc etc), albeit Pedro's a little better than those folks (combined) (* 100). I'm still not sure why he was egging on Karim Garcia, and I'm also not sure why, aside from the throwing-at-head thing (which, duh, is a big deal), 4th-outfielder epitomizer Garcia A) took SUCH umbrage @ Pedro deigning to throw a baseball near his personage and B) felt it necessary to exact revenge by sliding into Todd Walker @ 2nd base long after Walker had gotten rid of the ball (which is how I understood what happened on that double play) - it'd be a neat trick to see a runner break up a double play when the ball's already 3/4ths of the way to 1st. Of course, given the purported cleat massage that Garcia (& super-terrific good fella Jeff Nelson) gave to the groundscrew member, perhaps it's not too surprising to see Garcia act like such a chump.

As for Pedro's run-in with Zimmer, I've heard some rumblings regarding Zim's less-than-cherubic personage, though I would like some stories to back this up. Regardless, it might've behooved Pedro to not toss Zimmer aside (tho, heat of the moment, damned if I wouldn't have done the same), tho it might've behooved Zimmer to not charge a guy half his age. Never mind the whole "I'm gonna hit you / I've fallen and I can't get up" shift of the entire encounter. And it would've been nice if Manny realized how far Clemens' pitch was from hitting him and reacted accordingly.

Given what went down, the umps should've either A) tossed Pedro after the head-pointing thing & warned both sides or B) let Clemens stoke the fires with a little chin music & warn both sides. Issuing a warning immediately after the Garcia confrontation totally screws the Yankees, in that Manny's overreactive fucknuttiness regarding a middle-of-the-plate ball can actually be vaguely justified, and morons like Garcia feel the need to channel Ty Cobb in exacting vengeance.

Ideally, I would hope that Garcia would simply take his base, swallow his pride, and let his teammates get back at Pedro's insolence by smacking him around. Of course, that's what they were doing prior to The Pitch, and I guess Pedro was successful in that regard (if his intentions re: The Pitch were to establish dominance again and get his slop-throwing self back on track). That said, the Yankees (& Clemens, in particular) showed a LOT more restraint than I thought possible, & I might throw up in my mouth after typing this, but it's that sort of professionalism that typifies the Yankees and their pseudo-mythical ability to win the big games.

Honestly, I'd feel better about sympathizing with the Yankees' plight were it not for the YES Network's post-game coverage and their inability to even attempt to fashion a feasable facade of journalistic impartiality. Like, y'know, if you're going to comment on how harping on all the Pedro / Garcia / Zimmer nonsense detracts from the greatness of the actual game (and, yeah, the game was pretty good), then how about backing that shit up by practicing what you preach? Seeing Peter Gammons on there for a brief chat, though, was nice.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 13 October 2003 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I just want to know why the fuck Clemens didn't clobber Martinez with a splintered bat"ball". What is he good for? Soft motherfucker.

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 13 October 2003 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

because Ally, this in the AL, beanball is fostered* = pitchers don't bat, there is a DH instead.

*Chicago Cubs excepted.**

**cf. Shawn Estes, current Cubby/then Met who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn***

***Clemens' big ass****

****retribution for Piazza/bat incident.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 13 October 2003 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

This might explain why Zimmer freaked as he did. He went nuts once during a Cubs/Phillies game when he thought someone was throwing at someones dome.

"Zimmer was leading the American Association with 23 HR and 63 RBI on July 7, 1953 when he was hit in the head by a Jim Kirk pitch. He was unconscious for almost two weeks, lost his speech for six, and dropped 44 lbs. Inserted in his head were four "buttons...like tapered corkscrews in a bottle," he explained. He returned in 1954 and was Brooklyn's second baseman in the 1955 World Series. He was doing well in 1956 when a pitch from the Reds' Hal Jeffcoat fractured his cheekbone and ended his season."

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/Z/Zimmer_Don.stm

earlnash, Monday, 13 October 2003 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Bbbbbbbbbut gygax, Clemens wasn't batting when he tried to murder Piazza either...!

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly ally

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Well now I actually am lost.

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally, the usual accusation is that the DH is responsible for a lot of brushback pitching, because unlike pre-DH or in the NL, the pitcher doesn't have to come up to bat and face possible retribution. (This doesn't seem to make Schilling any less aggressive, but he hardly ever actually hits the guy, he's just really good at pitching way inside.)

So arguably, Clemens would've kept things a little calmer if he'd had to face the Mets pitcher later in the game. (Given that Clemens has always been very upfront about pitching angry, I don't think that's true, but it's an easy argument to make.)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

(Assuming that's where you were lost)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I'm just lost by the fact that no one here seems to agree that Clemens should be beaten the Red Sox with baseball bats, I mean wtf people.

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

You need to ask my friend Tom Porrino, Ally. He'll do that to Clemens with abiding pleasure.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 October 2003 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

**cf. Shawn Estes, current Cubby/then Met who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn***

***Clemens' big ass****

It's pathetic. Shawn Estes' only job in the Mets rematch was to hit Clemens and he missed. How can you MISS such a huge target? George W. Bush has better pitch location.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 13 October 2003 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i would like to park in kenmore square again before i die- ive got to hit nuggets records store. so could this baseball business hurry up & finsh already? i am sick of circling around fenway park 28 times with my hazard lights flashing & doulbe parking jsut doesnt happen in this city ~ok thanks bye

half jack, Monday, 13 October 2003 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it was cool how the supersmart commentators never once mentioned why Sammy might've been so upset last night in the wannabe-superfracas there:

1) Even if he's not throwing at you (he wasn't), when it's straight at your head & almost 100 mph (it was), the distinction isn't much consolation.

2) Remember when his fucking helmet got shattered in the spring? Could make a guy a little jumpy ...

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Monday, 13 October 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/2008638.jpg

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 13 October 2003 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the things I've noticed in fringe-Cubs territory out here is that all those "Cork" T-shirts (Cubs logo but says "Cork" instead of "Cubs") people were wearing disappeared over the week or two before the playoffs. I dunno if it's team spirit or fear of having the crap kicked out of you :) (We had like a five-ten minute discussion of the Cubs in my otherwise no-nonsense Medieval Christianity class, of all places. I think I see what you guys were saying on the phantom thread; baseball fandom is hitting all the nooks and crannies this month.)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 October 2003 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, anyone remember the Fracas short on way-old SNL? WTF was up with that, anyway?

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Monday, 13 October 2003 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that little Yankees guy looked like Mickey Rooney in 'Bill'.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 13 October 2003 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Doing his impression of the Rhino from, um, The Amazing Spider-Man, wasn't it?

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Monday, 13 October 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks to Boers and Bernstein on the Score I will never be able to look at a picture of Sosa again without hearing him sing the Armor Hot Dogs theme... "the dog kids love to hollow out and..." Oh I'll stop there before somebody biffs me one...

Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 13 October 2003 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I *heart* Pedro. I hope the hurls the Base Ball for the New York Yankees.

ModJ, Monday, 13 October 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Sucker punching Don Zimmer is like sucker punching Yoda for fuck's sake. Loving Pedro now is like loving the devil. If the Yankees were real men instead of a bunch of pretty boys, they'd hunt down Martinez like the dog he is and beat him Joe-Pesci-in-Goodfellas-style but god forbid they fuck their suits, yo.

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 13 October 2003 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

But he didn't sucker punch Zimmer, Ally.

Zimmer ran at him, and Pedro flipped him to the ground. Much nicer than wailing on the old guy.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

They showed a new angle of the Zimmer charge today, and Christ -- he was gunning for Pedro (and has previously attacked pitchers, although I don't know if Pedro was aware of that). I mean, yeah, Pedro deserves a fine -- but ten times that of Zimmer's, when Zim was the one instigating?

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

It's funnier if he sucker punched him.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

ugh Fox I don't care what Tom Ridge thinks about what happened Saturday.

hstencil, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"If the veterans wanted to use your head for a bowling ball, well, you just smiled and hoped they remembered to wax the lanes."

http://www.espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/031013.html

brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I still love Pedro. If we had more pitchers giving teams a little chin music then maybe every AL schmoe wouldn't have 30 homers. Why is Zimmer even on the Yankees coaching staff? He is like a mascot or something.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I love Pedro so much, I'm going to make him a mixtape of Bright Eyes songs.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm surprised pedro's hands didn't get eaten by Jabba's cheeks.

Chris V. (Chris V), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 10:27 (twenty-one years ago)

From The NY Times:

But if there is a Game 7 with Martínez on the mound, Bloomberg should be more concerned with the behavior of those Yankees fans who might be more concerned with the visiting villain.

Names or even nicknames will never hurt Martínez, but in the absence of sticks and stones, a battery might. When he's on the mound or when he warms up in the bullpen, he would be within range of any Yankees loyalist with a good arm. But if there's no Game 7, Pedro the Perpetrator will be safe. Until next season.

(I saw this quoted this morning with just the final paragraph, which makes it seem almost menacing instead of trying-to-be-prophetic.)

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i recon security is going to be insane at this next game in ny¿ the grounds crew isn't even safe - thats fawked¡

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Even last night's game had the FBI and National Guard there. It's ridiculous (the need for security, not the security itself), it's like hockey, for God's sake.

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

well, i've never seen a zamboni driver get ina scrap with the visiting team before.

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Baseball's got nothin' on players vs. fan brawls compared to hockey.

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but it's got arrests now! (And the various storm-the-field attacks in the past couple years. I don't watch enough hockey, I dunno if that kind of thing happens on the ice.)

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe back in the day of Broad Street Bullies, some Blues players went up into the stands to brawl with some of the Philly fans.

Also:
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/news/images/032901-domi_water.jpg
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/news/images/032901-domi_fan.jpg
[insert pic of Domi pummeling the guy when he missed his punch and fell into the penalty box.]

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

There's the classic Boston Bruins vs. Ranger fans from the 70's. which featured Terry O'Reilly and Mike Milbury beating the shit out of some fans in the stands and Milbury whacking one of them with his shoe.

Chris V. (Chris V), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

ahhh domi's the best (in a lacking-any-form-of-class kinda way).

dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)


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