Wanting to spend time in groups without members of the opposite sex

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Especially if you are perfectly open and inclusive the other 98% of the time?

This is a pertinent question prompted by the London single-sex FAP threads which deserves its own thread (and to avoid derailing the others). Even at this early stage its telling that the women have been highly up for the idea while some of the blokes have been indifferent or even hostile. I don't think this is true of men in general mind.

Girls/lads nights out - classic or dud?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

classic until you get drunk enough to not be picky, then dud.

― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

classic

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

dud. grrls r00l.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't say I've ever gone to some sort of social event on the premise that it'll be "lads only". For me it just conjures up images of those awful documentaries about lads out in Ibiza getting drunk and trying to pull, and all that. Not that the FAP would be anything like that. Yet it feels strange to think that a FAP would be organised along a single sex line.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I only have one group of friends I ever really want to do this with, and that's mostly because we are a CLIQUE which just happens not to include any women. I generally loathe the idea of the stereotypical lads night out, but there have been loads of occasions when I've been the only male present in a group of women on a night out and not cared.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

You just answered your own question fantastically well, Matt.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never gone out socially with a group of friends that hasn't been all one gender, mainly because the only offline friends I have are female. And sure, one of them is married, that's for certain, and another one always has a boyfriend, but whenever we get together, it's always been us females. I don't know what would be expected of me if a male were to be included in our group. It'd make a change, that's for sure.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Another reason behind this question is that I can see exactly why the ILX Girls would want to have their own night out, but can't really see why an all-male FAP would be better than a normal one.

Conversely, I have never been on a stag night, but really want to. This is kind of a special case though, I feel.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Stag nights (I've only really gone on one, but I've got a Stag Weekend in Vegas next spring) are fecking bizarre. Not so much in a good way, I think. God knows I like drinking. And attractive women. But a strip club is SO FAKE that it's disturbing. I'd much rather get drunk and talk with people. And women (friends) are great.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't have a hen night as men far outweigh women in my social circle and it would have been weird (OK, truth is, I don't have enough friends). However, I really can't imagine finding myself in a situation where I would want to be out of the company of an entire gender. I do quite often spend time in groups of men with no women around, but that's not through not wanting any women there, it's just the way it is with the people I know.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I... don't know. I'm a little distrustful of social groups which are intentionally all-female - not for any sort of ethical reason, but because I'm useless at Women Stuff. To my mind, a mixed group means less likelihood of conversations about Arcane Girl Things like makeup and men and whatnot - this despite the fact that my main social group for most of my life has been if not all-female than almost so. I think it's just the connotations of "girls' night in/out" that instinctively (instinctually?) terrifies me.

(I'm undecided about the all-women FAP because so far none of the girls going are ones that I've met. On the other hand, lesbian bar! <3)

― cis (cis), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

classic
-- tokyo rosemary (rosemarygilber...), October 30th, 2003. (later)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dud. grrls r00l.
-- mookieproof (ole04...), October 30th, 2003. (later)

We can lock the thread now, we're done.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Since I went to an all-boys school, I'm pretty used to hanging out with large groups of guys. I'd never actively seek out to be solely with guys, though. I figure the only reason you'd want to have a 'boys/girls night out' is if you want to behave in a way in which you feel you can't do around members of the opposite sex. (the concept of which I find quite bizarre, and somewhat immature)

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

So, dud.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

All the NYC ILX CHIXOR only events I have been to have been FUN FUN FUN!!!!

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't decide whether the gender segregation thing IS weird, or if the guys are taking their exclusion too personally. could i liken this situation to my experiences in mixed-gender vs all-female bands? mixed gender bands are grebt. but sometimes i just wanna play music with other women, not to actively exclude men, but cos its such an affirmation of myself as a woman to play music with other girls in a society where its still not commonplace to do that. i doubt that has any relevance to gender-segregated social occasions though - which frankly DO seem odd to me, i mean galpals rule but i have male friends who are just like galpals!!

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 31 October 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Usually, I'm just jealous. My female friends are always making soup together and drinking wine and gossiping for their "girls' night." I never get to do that!

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 31 October 2003 06:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Instead you get to drink beer, watch "the game" and gossip. Works out just as well.

(And let's all be honest - men are worse than women when it comes to gossip.)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 31 October 2003 06:50 (twenty-two years ago)

No but Milo, that's the thing, I never even do that. I mean, I gossip plenty. But I can't think of the last time I got together with other guys at someone's house for socializing purposes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 31 October 2003 06:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I thought you were jealous of the wine and soup.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 31 October 2003 07:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 31 October 2003 07:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno. I think I am getting to the point where I am craving female companionship more because I'm in a live-in relationship, so that the person I see the most and speak to the most is a MAN, and sometimes, you know, I just want some GIRL TALK. Not necessarily talk about stupid girl stuff like lippie and crap, but just talk from a feminine perspective, where you don't have to explain yourself all the time.

For so much of history, the genders were segregated, with menfolk getting to do all the cool stuff and hold the power and have the fun, with women actively excluded, and I've spent so much of my life (and my mother and grandmothers the same) trying to get accepted into all-male enclaves. So I've often been the only woman in an all male group.

So having an all female group becomes the rarity, and therefore pleasurable just because of that.

The weird dynamic is when you have two women, in an otherwise all male group. Either you find yourselves pushed together through circumstance, and you bond simply through *having* to bond. Or else, some weird kind of competativeness arises, and it almost seems like the other woman "takes the side of" the men, or else somehow feels threatened by your presence, because *she* is the lads' lady. High male, low female ratio FAPs sometimes develop an uncomfortable atmosphere in that respect. Perhaps an all girl FAP would enable women who don't otherwise talk to each other at FAPs to feel free of this "competetiveness" and actually find some common ground.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I've spent years getting glammed up & going out on girls nights out. Also went through a stage of being in a big group of mixed gender which i enjoyed just as much. There is something great about gathering your girls up & going out, but to be honest I'd much rather it involved my boy. I mean, I'm with him because I like to spend time with him.

I agree with Kate on that last paragraph to a certain extent, but an all girl fap may be more pressure. I mean, the only girl i have ever spoken to/met on ilx is Vicky. (thanks vicky that was sweet of you to come over!) As much as I am keen on meeting everyone properly I am also really nervous. I have to walk into a room full of GIRLS!!! that I don't know. It's easier to be confident around blokes than it is around girls.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

aww you ladies rule and i hope you have a great time!

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Wish you could join Di!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

That would be awesome!

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm pretty sick of spending what seems like 95% of my time with just men. but it also seems that the few female friends i have have far more male friends than female too.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Most of my friend are female, and I'm not at ease doing typical "male stuff", so an all-male night would be pretty awkward for me... Anyway, I have only a few close male friends (half of whom are gay), so our male night would be pretty pathetic.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:00 (twenty-two years ago)

All-men nites suck ass. But then my male friends are either psychotic or abroad, so I haven't had one since, mrm, early 2001. Girls just want to be with the girls.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

And the boys say "what do you mean?"

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

*rolls eyes*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

the weird thing is that until FAPs my like entire circle-qua-circle was female (to the point where i wz elected "honorary chixor" in one office i worked, and hauled off into the little girls room to be gossiped at/with abt the rubbishy men we worked with haha), w.male friendships purely one-on-one

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's face it, most male ilxors are honourary chixors!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Tuomas should so come to a FAP. I think he'd fit right in (and I mean that in a good way, not that you're a hairy beer-willing mentalist).

A thought I just had - conventionally, men are more used to proactively approaching (and, importantly, being rejected by) women than women do to men. Massive generalisation, I know, so bear with me. So perhaps men have a more pavlovian response to what they see as "rejection" in this case, even though no-one is actually pissed off as far as I can tell.

I like the idea of single-sex meet ups, 1) because it's NOT the same as every other FAP (conveniently ignoring the last one I went to *was* all male) and therefore disrupts the presumed and actual bonding structures of the group, 2) because it'll be even more fun meeting up afterwards (for bowling?), and 3) because it might actually tempt some more females out.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i might just stay in with my Sex In The City boxset

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't make it as an honourary chixor steve til you start wearing a g string!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

starry and anna were both at the last one you went to mark c!! (ok not while you were there and anna wz there for like 3 seconds)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, all-girl FAP = London ILX women bonding more as a group, hopefully = more women turn up to future FAPs. Theoretically.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I've been on 2 hen nights this year and the strangeness of being in an all girl group is definitely a good sort of strangeness, on both occasions I only knew a couple of the girls out of the group but I definitely 'bonded' better than I would if there had been men there. After both I have thought to myself, I should have girlie nights more often but as none of my girl friends really know each other it's kinda tricky.

― Emma, Friday, 31 October 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever it is, it's something different, and something different is always worth giving a shot.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I like spending time with all girls as much as, though not more than, being in a mixed group. Even a non-girly girl like me occasionally wants to discuss the ins and outs of buying tights or something. But I do find it much harder to meet NEW people when they are all female... don't know why really. Except that maybe I feel self-conscious talking to women because part of me thinks I'm meant to *be like them*, and if I'm not then I get anxious... whereas I find talking to men ok because we're not competing even subsubsubconsciously.

So, in conclusion, the allgirl FAP will be a challenge for me, but a fun one i hope!

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Archel = floozy.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm in a situation similarly to Kate's. But I am used to having two sisters and having primarily female friends only. (Not out of choice, just coincidence really). I've only worked with women, been friends with women, and because of this I find them so much easier to talk to. So while I feel this way, I kind of feel like the concept of a "girl's night out" is kinda dud (it evokes images of bad night clubs, or worse--international coffee commercials), but I still want an all-girl FAP. Look at this tangle of thorns!

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

And since when is talking about makeup arcane?

― mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Wanting to spend time in groups without members of the same sex - C/D?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the funny thing is, my most common all-girl experiences have been with extremely non-girly-girls, i.e. bandmates and the like. The bassist for my last band was also extremely non-girly, and both of us used to say that one of the really fun parts about gigging was when we'd get ready together in the bathroom, putting on makeup and doing our hair and giggling about it, because this was the ONLY time that we ever did such things, and it was strangely fun because of it. Because the rest of our lives were taking up with music gear and HTML and computer programming and other such non-girly activities.

In a lot of ways, I actually prefer the company of women, but I don't often get the chance. But then again, perhaps I actually prefer the company of more androgynous examples of both genders - strong women and girly men.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not a girly girl at all, but hey I like wearing low cut tops & make up FOR ME!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Me too I think kate. Actually I'm ok being with ONE girly girl friend at a time, but put me in a gang of them and I start to fidget and roll my eyes and crave beer.

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

My suspicion is that beer will be allowed, Archie.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this will be the least girly-girl Girl FAP in the history of Girls Nights Out.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes.

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I need a shopping partner. The girls I know in Glasgow either hate shopping or I don't feel like I know them well enough. Come back, Lara!

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

you should all wear uniform, like madchen

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Although I think there's a tendency to want to believe that when women get together they only talk about makeup and handbags and shoes and their boyfriends... when I say I crave "girl talk" this is not what I mean. I'm not sure what I mean when I say girl talk. I know it when I hear it. I guess just a feminine perspective.

Oh, I need a shopping partner too. But one that takes an exorbitant amount of time completing the task. I'm slow. And like to look at everything.

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

stevem is gettin' some!

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I need a shopping partner, too! Because the only girl in London I know that likes to shop is an uber-fashion-snob who rubbishes everything I want to buy!

I know what you mean by girltalk, Mandee. That's why I diferentiate between girly-girl talk (oh, shopping, boys, makeup, fashion - not that there's anything wrong with talking about boys or fashion, ha-hem!) and girl talk, which is just talking about things from a feminine perspective, and in a feminine way - e.g. comparing and sharing experiences, rather than trying to do the one-up-man-ship boy thing - as per Carole Gilligan etc.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I know when guys get together all we talk about is make-up.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

stevem is gettin' some!

...bitchslaps? stern talking to's? court orders?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

no Pete we just make up stuff

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Girls, I love to shop & take forever to do it & the day usually consists of shopping, wine, shopping, wine, lunch, shopping, wine, repeat to fade...

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Woah. Two lots of wine before lunch? Do you take a bottle with you? Screw cap?

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not a slow-shopper, though. I am a search and destroy Hunter Gatherer.

My shopping style is that I will go to every single shop, one after another, all in a row, to see if they have what it is that I want (though I will also forage thought the undergrowth, I mean, bargain rack and gather other things I may find on the way). But I am relentless, in that I will shop until I find what I want, and I get very cranky if I am distracted from the hunt.

I am not a girly-girl, I am satisfying my hunter gatherer instincts! My grandmother the Scientist came up with this theory, so it must be right!

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i like to whine whilst shopping too

oh wait, that's only funny if you SAY it

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Wine! That's where I've been going wrong lately! Lately several shopping trips have been aborted far too early as I collapse with exhaustion and despair at not finding any nice shoes. I thought it was just me getting OLD but now I see that I need to add ALCOHOL to the proceeedings!

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a late lunch! Screw cap??!!! Wash your mouth out boy!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

she's a 'box' girl ;)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Going shopping after a few drinks is *really* dangerous.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Making sure that you get food during the shopping experience means that you don't exhausted, and wine during the proceedings helps the losening up and enjoyment of said experience. (We are NOT responsible for drunken purchases, however, if you come home with a silver pleather "we are from venus take me to your men" outfit, it is yer own damned fault.)

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

women be shoppin

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

she's a 'box' girl ;)

That sounds so wrong!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Talking about makeup is arcane to me! I skipped that part of a girl's life where she is initiated into such curious & wonderful mysteries.

The female perspective and way of discussion, though, I like, which makes the spending time with members of same sex appealing. And ILx chix0rs are cool. Even if you do all seem to like shopping ick ick ick.

― cis (cis), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

She builds you up, just to knock you down. *sigh*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Surrender to shopping, Cis. I used to share your view (though I don't actually understand makeup, and have started threads about the same - though I had to learn to put on stage makeup for my former career!) but it really is our prehistoric heritage. Even if it's shopping for CDs or books rather than clothes!

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I love shopping for anything, food, xmas pressies etc.

*makes mental note to bring make up & brushes to fap to scare kate*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Make-up doesn't scare me. I mean, I've learned to do it. I just don't understand why anyone would wear it every day.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

:-(

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I've gone drunk shopping a few times.. and ended up buying mostly alcohol paraphenalia (shot glasses, a fancy flask, a martini mixer).

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Mandee, we are soooooooo going shopping!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

(I love how this thread was started by boys but has since totally girled out.)

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't get me started on makeup.

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I've ever had a conversation about make up, maybe a brief exchange eg 'nice lipgloss' 'yeah it's from MAC' 'oh right'. Shopping though.... hmmm... as I work on Oxford St my shopping style is to go to 2 or 3 different shops per lunch hour over the course of a week looking for something specific until I find the perfect whatever it is. This is time consuming and stressful, sigh.

― Emma, Friday, 31 October 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't find shopping fun until a few years ago, mostly because I didn't know the joy of window shopping -- most of my female friends back in Denver don't like shopping because they don't see the point in shopping around if you don't have money to spend. Me, I like going into every store, looking at everything, and most of the time I don't even end up buying anything. I used to go on these all-day sprees with an old co-worker where we'd drive all over Colorado to shop. Boulder in the morning, Denver in the afternoon, then back to Boulder, then we'd collapse in a heap at around midnight, having spent about $400 each. We did this every other weekend. It was insane.

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

No! I shall resist!

Um, except for records and books. They bring out all my hunter-gatherer instincts.

― cis (cis), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate I am starting to wonder why I bother with makeup every day, this morning I nearly left the house without putting on lipstick and this seemed like a terrible thing... I only realised I hadn't put it on when I kissed Alan goodbye and there was no mark left on his face. bah. stupid lipstick.

― Emma, Friday, 31 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I wear make up everyday, am i bad?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the natural look

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Steve only wears makeup for special occasions.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

why i oughta

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Emma and Pink, I really should revive my makeup thread because I don't remember how it was resolved (stupid getting sacked from job because of ILX).

I don't literally mean "talking about lippie" but more metaphorically. Talking about clothes, etc. Which is ironic, because it's more a function of I just didn't "get" the fashions that they were talking about. A former friend once pointed out my hypocrisy of rolling my eyes at shoe conversations by asking me how many pairs of Chelsea Boots I had, and then she got a half hour discussion on the merits of cuban heels vs. flat heels, and she just laughed and said "ha ha, I told you so."

Perhaps it's just taken me a long time to come around to the joys of small talk. And I have ILE to thank for that.

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ke-lassic! as long as you are ironic/self-reflective abt. it.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Whether it's right or wrong, it's what i choose to do & I am happy doing it so i guess it's not an issue for me.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, for a long time, I thought that talking about/admiring clothes was shallow. Because it's so tied in with FASHION and we all know what's evil about that, consumerism, body fascism, etc. etc.

But it was actually Suzy who taught me that there really isn't much of a difference between fashion - admiring the aesthetics of clothes, and the design thereof, and putting together clothes in creative ways - and any other kind of art. It's no more shameful to appreciate a well-made outfit than it is to appreciate architecture.

It's only shameful because it's a more populist artform - i.e. one that everyone can participate in!

― kate (kate), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Our emergency outfitshopping yesterday necessitated a stop in the PUB halfway down Oxford Street, but I can blame this on illness as well as everything I liked being far too expensive for me. And what the hell is up with the New Look at the top end of Oxford Street? It is utterly mentalist, like shopping gone TRON!

I have never really had a good time in a lesbian bar but luckily all the alternatively lifestyled hurrah companions of mine tend to prefer REAL ALE and therefore the good old PUB hurrah hurrah and thrice hurrah.

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 31 October 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

It is utterly mentalist, like shopping gone TRON!

i must investigate this, with my little yes/no sprite

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 October 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Mandee/Kate, I'll go shopping on some Saturday sometime. The only girls in London that'd I'd go shopping with both work on Saturdays.

I learned how to knit at the last all-female event I attended. I now have 3 ft of scarf done!

― marianna, Friday, 31 October 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I think we should have FAPs based on race.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 31 October 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha they aren't already?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 October 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Look, all the boys are just jealous of all the girls.

End of discussion.

― mei (mei), Friday, 31 October 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I kind of feel like the concept of a "girl's night out" is kinda dud (it evokes images of bad night clubs, or worse--international coffee commercials)

Or women with big hair vomiting behind country bars, which has always been what I think of whenever I think of them?

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Saturday, 1 November 2003 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the natural look

the natural look usually involves more makeup than the all out trashy red lippy big eyeliner look.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 1 November 2003 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic.

― Carey (Carey), Saturday, 1 November 2003 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

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Wanting to spend time in groups without members of the opposite sex - C/D?