Defend the indefensible: American Smoking bans.

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OK. So an American citizen's freedoms are enshrined in the constitution.

Meaning that your average Yankee-Joe, will fight to the death for the right to continue bearing arms. Allowing teenagers to buy automatic weapons and kill their classmates.

So why have the usually libertarian leaning Americans allowed laws to be passed banning smoking in public places, but not packing a shootah?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Hi Calum!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

High Colonic!

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

HAHAHAHA "usually libertarian leaning Americans"!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Begging your pardon?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I am Guy N. Cogneato.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I almost wrote an enraged response to this, but all you guys posted first, thank god.

― Skottie, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, yes Libertarian. Meaning 'freedom of choice' not bowing to 'government controls' etc

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I usually curtsey to them.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Perry OTM.

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

bowling to government controls!
does that have anything to do with a WildC.A.T. Strike?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

god knows it's *too* easy to bring guns into those chelsea bars

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

We are gathered here
Today in these majestic
halls of old to honor
a man they call
Sathington Willoughby.
There's a joke or two,
A pun or three
I feel that must be
told then I go on to
speak of Sathington Willoughby.
Sathington Willoughby
the legislator that
penned us up a bill
that banned the use
of certain things like this and
that.

― regarding the smoking ban that has more effect on me (nickalicious), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was at Starbucks during lunch, I decided to sit outside at one of those tables because it was 80 degrees or so. Then two people came and sat on either table beside me and started smoking. I don't normally get annoyed at people smoking. I go to concerts all the time. But for some reason, this really bothered me. When all smoking is confined to the area right outside of a restaurant, where can nonsmokers go for fresh air?

Rant over.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't understand the primus reference?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Montana

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I can understand the fact that many people find smoking deeply unpleasant (I don't smoke myself). But what interests me, is the fact that Americans have allowed a law to outlaw it.

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

it should be noted that teenagers buying automatic weapons and shooting their classmates is banned also

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

workers rights mrorangespangle

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ie. why should a worker sacrifice his/her health just so some bourgie customer can have 'the right' to light up?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

why should a smoker's right to smoke trump a workers right to work in an enviroment not detrimental to their health?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

the right of the individual to breathe

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

OK..So it's about employee's rights...What about my health, were I to live in Los Angeles breathing in the fumes of a million 6 litre SUV's?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

you could move to Montana

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

pls do, then you'd be close to me and we could hang out

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

what job requires you to breath carfumes?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

and are there not PLENTY of laws on the books in california regulating car fumes?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Policeman on the beat..hot dog seller. Not just a job. What about my rights as a citizen breathing in polluted air?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

or are you against those laws also, since they trump peoples "rights" to blow out as much car fumes as they wish?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

sue them!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ie. do the EXACT SAME THING anti-smoking advocates did

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ie. put up or shutup

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, there may well be many laws on the statute books, but they are not very stringent. Consider the size of an average US cars engine, compared to that of a European one.

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

What would you like to be done, Mr. Sparkle? Everyone is free to leave LA at anytime, yanno.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

there's room in Montano, the couch pulls out.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I suppose there's the rub Mr littlejohnny. The American public and govt are deeply resistant to draconian laws curbing both vehicle emissions and indeed industrial emmisions. So why not the same resistance to smoking bans?

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/19990727/montana.jpg

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never been able to get to work while riding in my cigar.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

mrorangespangle until you bother to actually put forth an argument (ie, back up some of your statements with facts) or address anyone elses points (ie. show some fucking courtesy) I'm going to follow mr. mann's example and post pics of montana.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.virtualcities.com/ons/mt/montana.gif

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

ie. put up or shutup bitch

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Mr Johnny, before yau have a hissy-fit. I'm neither advocating smoking nor advocating banning cars.

What I'm interested in is, why as a nation of people who are in general pro-choice and deeply against government control, would allow laws to be passed in California and NYC that ban smoking in public places.

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know, Calum, why do you think that?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

and we have answered you and you have dodged our response. show a modicum of respect and you will be treated likewise.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/3080/montana.jpg

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

With the greatest of respect, sir. I haven't dodged your responses.

― MrOrangeSpangle, Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

yes you have

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 4 November 2003 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 138 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

'SANCTIMONY OF PRO-DRUGS PPL'!!!? Taking drugs are GOOD FOR...oh why am I wasting my breath (*sighs condescendingly*)

Oh that was sort of a syntactical error BUT yes actually a lot of pro-druuugggs ppl *are* all wanky about it, less concerned by actual conditions in Columbia, Afghanistan etc.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I quit smoking 11 days ago, and I'd punch my mother in the face for a cigarette right now.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

In Colombia coke is about 50 cents a gram, in Afghanistan smack is practically free, and I'm supposed to feel sory for THEM?

― dave q, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I cant even by ephedrine in this hellhole. How is that fair?

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

In Colombia coke is about 50 cents a gram, in Afghanistan smack is practically free, and I'm supposed to feel sory for THEM?

Please use emoticons when it isn't obv you're joking!

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

In Colombia coke is about 50 cents a gram, in Afghanistan smack is practically free

God damn it, and once again I'll only be touring Europe and the U.S. - when the hell am I gonna learn

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

also, Momus, that's not what "deconstruct" means

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrique it was pretty obvious!

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, I really used to love Momus. What a fool I was!

― J (Jay), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

: maybe some ppl will never have anything other than 'shitty' jobs
: we need ppl to do shitty jobs
: making them less shitty to do is in all our interests

i notice that ppl smoking in public generally don't hold the burning cig directly beneath their own nose and inhale every acrid particle - they like to hold it behind them/up at their shoulder/at arm's length: aren't they are themselves acknowledging it as annoyingly unpleasant?
if it was nothing, they wouldn't take steps to preserve their own & their friends comfort at the expense of others

i am considering patenting pocket-sized personal petrol engines for carbon-monoxide junkies, who can then fire them up inside bars/clubs/restaurants etc in order to take the occasional drag on straw sized micro-exhausts
as the engines idle away, filling the air with fumes, the suckers can celebrate their personal freedom, glory in the decadence of their self-destructive derring-do, and tell any complaining smokers to quit their holier-than-thou whining - i mean it's not like the wheezing ashholes can claim to have any sense of smell left anyway

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

society in not being organized perfectly shocker

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, right -- also we don't hold 'em against other ppl's nose do we? This is a silly argument: passive smoking is v difficult in the open air.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrique is OTM.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, I really used to love Momus. What a fool I was!

Do you think I could stand the sight of those big puppy dog eyes gazing up at me every day? I have set you free. To love... this place.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

If they start revving up their smoking bans in the UK I will smell much much nicer but bars/clubs will have less atmosphere or in fact less harsh light [mmm, flattering fog]

Though I don't smoke. But basic human rights what what. Surely we all have the right to kill ou-..

ah.

― penelope (penelope), Thursday, 6 November 2003 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Everyplace I've ever worked that would want to let their customers smoke -- bar, restaurant -- was staffed almost exclusively by smokers. Tell the bartender he shouldn't relieve the stress of his shitty job by smoking behind the bar and if he has any spine he'll refuse to serve you. Secondhand smoke never gets that thick in modern bars -- what do you think they made smoke eaters for? If there's insufficient ventilation to take care of cigarettes then the owners probably cheap their workers in all kinds of ways, which means they're getting liquor stolen from them at a rate that will hopefully sink the business. I now work (worse hours for a lot less money, keep that in mind) at a newspaper where the publisher makes us smoke outside in the Chicago cold -- so as not to bother the ad reps' clients. Now THAT is "screw the workers," if you ask me... not to mention the vivid image I get of Mike Royko rolling over in his grave every time I have to smoke a rained-on, cold-air-flavored pill.

Anyway, I feel about as civilized as a lizard when I have to eat a meal without smoking afterward. "Let's ingest some life and pretend death doesn't exist, that's a complete evening, now let's drive over to see a boring movie! Bleeeeeh, I'm a driving jellyfish!!!"

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Thursday, 6 November 2003 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

"ban"

― ron (ron), Thursday, 6 November 2003 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The surface material of the bra and shorts are coated with liquefied titanium oxide, a substance which could break down unpleasant smoke smells And if that fails, a pad attached to the Triumph bra could be used as a face mask in smoky bars.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

what are men supposed to do? are they going to make anti-smoking rocket jocks?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Anti-smoking panties????????

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"do you smoke after sex?"

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

give me a break ann, have you ever been to the rainbow, simon's, etc.? the smoke gets awfully thick in there on fridays or saturdays and often other days as well.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 6 November 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sterzinger -- but you must work nr J Rosenbaum! Consolation!

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

It's really annoying when restaurants don't cater for smokers. You should be allowed to do anything you like, e.g. light joss sticks and bang a tambourine. I once had a waiter complain about me having a wank over my own tagliatelle.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

if anyone hassles you for banging a tambourine they deserve to be beaten within an inch of their lives

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

seven months pass...

Bosko Balaban Stats For Season

Name Bosko Balaban
Team Aston Villa
Total Appearances 0
Starts 0
Substituted 0
Total Minutes Played 0
Avg Minutes Played Per Start 0
Goals 0
Avg Goal Mins When Starting 0.0
Avg Mins Played/Goal Scored 0
Goals Scored As Sub 0
Number of Bookings 0
Total Booking Minutes 0
Avg Bookings Per Start 0
Number of Red Cards 0
Total Red Card Minutes 0
Avg Red Cards Per Start 0

― bosko, Monday, 14 June 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

eight years pass...

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2013/05/30/report-starbucks-to-ban-smoking.html

― iatee, Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:08 (twelve years ago)

9 years ago, but...

Secondhand smoke never gets that thick in modern bars...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

― New Authentic Everybootsy Collins (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:42 (twelve years ago)

Secondhand smoke untested in "gastropubs" iirc

― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:46 (twelve years ago)

continue to love the smoking ban, thx bloombito

― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:51 (twelve years ago)

Is there a major US city left where you can still smoke inside of a business?

― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:52 (twelve years ago)

smoking bans are the best. I remember going to see Prefuse 73/Four Tet/Manitoba in a bar pre-smoking ban and I literally had to go outside every 20 minutes or so just to get a breath of fresh air/wipe the tears out of my eyes it was so lung-cloggingly awful. totally caught me off-guard

― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:53 (twelve years ago)

ha i thought this revive was gonna be about the "smokeshow" controversy

― goole, Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:55 (twelve years ago)

playing shows pre-ban was the worst - so many hours breathing in the muck. I can only imagine what it must have been like for people worked in those places every night.

― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:56 (twelve years ago)

^^^ Playing shows seconded. Last time time I was in New Orleans one of the smoky clubs was so awful I gave up and left. It's been a long time since I've had to try to deal with that.

― New Authentic Everybootsy Collins (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:21 (twelve years ago)

I actually like going out for a smoke.

― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:26 (twelve years ago)

I just wish they'd leave us the outside. I've noticed a slight trend of patios and outdoor spaces putting up no smoking signs, which, you people have the whole inside of the bar, rain or shine! This is all we've got, have a heart.

― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:28 (twelve years ago)

ehh you have every manhattan sisdewalk

― iatee, Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:30 (twelve years ago)

Let me know when you can have a margarita brought to your Manhattan sidewalk and drink it openly, and I'll allow the point.

― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:31 (twelve years ago)

no my point is that it should be banned from every manhattan sidewalk too

― iatee, Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:32 (twelve years ago)

There's a bar in town that still allows smoking and has horrible ventilation, and every time I go I have to change into clothes that I don't care about because they will reek of smoke for days afterwards (also: my hair)

― walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:32 (twelve years ago)

Is there a major US city left where you can still smoke inside of a business?

I haven't experienced it myself, but some friends were complaining about this in Philly recently.

― a monolithic testament to shiftlessness and lost productivity (dan m), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:33 (twelve years ago)

lol iatee

― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:34 (twelve years ago)

last time i was in milwaukee people were smoking in a coffeeshop and it blew my mind. that was probably four years ago though.

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:35 (twelve years ago)

A smoking ban (either state or local) has been enacted covering all bars and restaurants in each of the 60 most populated cities in the United States except these 16: Arlington, Texas, Atlanta, Fort Worth, Jacksonville, Memphis, Miami, Las Vegas, Nashville, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa, Tulsa, and Virginia Beach.

― sleepingsignal, Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:42 (twelve years ago)

what is taking philly so long

― iatee, Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:46 (twelve years ago)

to DIE

― goole, Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:46 (twelve years ago)

one thing I remember is that every diner/restaurant hostess in America said "smoking or non" in exactly the same pitch and tone

― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:49 (twelve years ago)

Smoking should be banned everywhere but inside private homes, for real.

― Huston we got chicken lol (Phil D.), Thursday, 30 May 2013 22:03 (twelve years ago)

totally

― iatee, Thursday, 30 May 2013 22:06 (twelve years ago)

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