― ethan, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― phil, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― maryann, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
And were it not to seem that I will be a lifelong renter, I'd have bet the mortgage that "Mallrats" was his most hated film.
― scott p., Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― ogden, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Geoff, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Dogma v disappointing for me.
Anyone watching "Bob and Rose" for that reverse Chasing Amy feel?
― Alan Trewartha, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Trevor, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Nick, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anna, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Smith's dialogue though, clunky, over-expositional and yet beautiful in a lack of verisimilitudinous way.
― Pete, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
that new jay and silent bob film is a BIG mistake. i think hes pretty overrated. he makes funny film. and........?
― ambrose, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
I try to watch Chasing Amy (my friend/college classmate Guin is in it) but like D Nick, that FUCKING VOICE makes me stop.
― suzy, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Mark Morris, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
I suppose one of the things I like about Smith's films is they the do display a degree of unfulfilled talent - the good moments really are up their with the best in cinema history. Then he throws a fart gag in, and something excrutiatingly twee happens. Deep down you get from his films that he is a pretty nice bloke who asks himself the big questions. WHen he can't answer them he takes a big dump.
He is to film writing what Richard Linklater is to structure. Anyone seen Waking Life btw?
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Nicole, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Graham, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
I suppose the film could have been plotted to make this the underlying conflict all along. But it spends a whole lot of time pretending she's a committed lesbian only to drop the whole thing for the sake of moving forward. It's as if someone meant to make a man- loves-lesbian film, realized halfway through that that's sort of difficult, and then decided to do something else instead.
― Nitsuh, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Can't. Currently curling and moussing the hair on my feet.
― Sterling Clover, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Paul Strange, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
nitsuh's on the money about chasing amy giving up on the gay angle halfway through, but i think it makes up for it somewhat with the proposed threesome part. i can't remember many other mainstream romantic comedies where the leading male puts forth a heartfelt offer to fuck his also- male best friend, and it was more interesting take than the lesbian chic first half (as whats-his-name complains about in the film, actually).
Duh. Me.
― di, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
If you're coming to this conclusion because you find its premise (boy meets self-identified lesbian, lesbian and boy subsequently fall for each other) implausible, I can tell you from personal experience that said premise most certainly does happen in real life, and indeed, happens whether or not it fits in with anyone's political or social agenda.
Personally, I'd say it's my favorite of the three KS films I've seen, despite its flaws. Ben Affleck isn't very good, and his character is pretty sketchily written (and acts like a total dope, which makes him hard to really empathize with at crucial moments of the story). The plot lurches and tumbles at a few key places, at that. But the character of Banky is so spot-on it's ridiculous -- he's an absolute dead ringer for a guy I know -- and there are some very funny scenes. Jason Lee was terrible in Mallrats, but his performance in this was almost touching.
Anyway, the film isn't homophobic at all, IMHO. It's told from a straight white male POV, but so what?
― Phil, Saturday, 6 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― ethan, Saturday, 6 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
isn't everything? thats the problem!! sure, there are examples of the premise of the movie happening in real life, but the movie is still the excuse for yet another sad lame ass schoolboy fantasy to be added to the millions of other schoolboy fantasies out there. BTW, the reason i said it was homophobic is because i see it as linked to lesbian oppression: it effectively renders REAL lesbianism invisible. in this movie, "lesbianism" is made palatable by placing it in a heterosexual context -- just like in your average women-on-women-for-male-titillation-porno. meanwhile, actual lesbian perspectives on lesbianism are not sought after in the mainstream, they are largely invisible, and where visible they are mostly misrepresented.
― di, Saturday, 6 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
isn't everything? thats the problem!!
No, it's not "the" problem, at least not in this case. Kevin Smith is a heterosexual white male filmmaker who makes films with a content which, though not autobiographical, could certainly be called "personal", for want of a better word. There is no secret about any of this, and I, for one, have no objection to the fact that he is writing a film from his own perspective, a perspective in which women, lesbian or not, are potentially seen with male erotic desire. The fact that the voices of lesbian and other filmmakers are less heard than those of straight men like Kevin Smith can in no way be regarded as a fault of his; any argument that holds him accountable for that is specious and silly. If anyone should be held accountable for failing to pay attention to lesbian and other perspectives, it's the public at large -- but I have to admit that I have a profound distrust of anyone who has pretensions to telling the public what it "ought" to like for ideological reasons (rather than, you know, because it's Good).
it effectively renders REAL lesbianism invisible.
Woe betide the individual who claims to have the authority to dictate what "REAL" lesbianism is! Do you have the chutzpah, then, to tell any of my female friends who have self-identified as lesbians, spent a portion of their lives dating women exclusively, and then began dating men (whether in addition or exclusively), that they were not "REAL" lesbians because they decided themselves just as capable of loving and/or making love to someone who had XY chromosomes?
I know you haven't seen the movie. Nonetheless, my take on it was that its essential message was bi- or pansexual -- that people are, at their best and most real, attracted to people as human beings above all (i.e. rather than gender roles), and that, in that context, labels can easily seem a bit silly. I know that's a simplistic notion, and sounds naive and unclear as I write it -- but it's a notion with which, at its heart, I find myself entirely comfortable.
When I was talking with my girlfriend about this, she said something which struck me as very interesting: "Actual lesbian perspectives don't really matter to me." And upon reflection, I have to say I agree: in that the tokenistic, "We-have-to-represent-this-point-of-view-and-this-one-an d-this-one-and-so-on" approach to this sort of thing has always struck me as boring and wrongheaded. If lesbian and other filmmakers are being deliberately silenced by individuals or organizations who oppose their right to have their voice heard, that's one thing. But I'm not interested in efforts to tailor the film output of world cinema to conform to some college-brochure ideal of diversity. For whatever reason, the vast majority of human beings on this planet are either heterosexual or bisexual. Heterosexual and bisexual points of view are statistically going to tend to outnumber "REAL" homosexual points of view -- and heck, one might even argue that hetero/bi POVs are more likely to resonate with more people, and thus do better at the box office.
There are beautiful, brilliant stories to be told that are nigh-impossible to imagine being told from a perspective different from that whence they come. The beauty in Pather Panchali is not merely a fetishized exoticism, it's the sheer beauty (and tragedy) of one facet of a Bengali-speaking part of India, and you could no more reproduce it using Texans than you could make a successful arrangement of Who's Next using bassoon and tuba: the results might be interesting, but a hell of a lot would be lost. I am interested in Pather Panchali not because it's Bengali, but because it's beautiful. If someone tried to keep me from it, or to suppress it, because it's Bengali, I'd beat them with a stick. But if someone tried to claim that the fact of its Bengali-ness was what was Important about it, and not first and foremost that it was a beautiful and brilliant film...then I hope Satyajit Ray would beat them with a stick. :-)
― hamish n00nan, Saturday, 6 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― ethan, Sunday, 7 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― lady die, Sunday, 7 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― maryann, Sunday, 7 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
If anyone comes back, though, I want to point out that my criticism of the film's use of homosexuality wasn't a social comment, but an aesthetic one -- it just bugged me that the film began mining plausible, resonant ground and then tossed it away halfway through to do something else. As for the "Lesbian Until Graduation" syndrome, well, yes, this is a very real thing. But the first half of Chasing Amy doesn't itself up this way -- it does everything in its power to make her lesbianism seem "real" (for lack of a better word) and convincing and committed, then turns on a dime and abandons this in favor of "actually, she's just a bit of a slut." I'm not ing to just pretend her character was a LUG type, because Smith just spent 50 minutes trying very hard to convince me that that wasn't the case.
And -- not to enter the politics of it, but -- I can see how a lesbian would find watching this film pretty annoying, given that a lot of its emotional pull revolves around getting you as a viewer to want a lesbian to love a man. (Whereas as a lesbian, it's my guess that your empathy is going to lie in the other direction.) Possibly a lot of the problem revolves around Smith setting Amy up, in the beginning, to be some sort of lesbian-epitome who Speaks for the Lesbian Experience, despite knowing that halfway through, she will turn out to be significantly non-representative of the Average Lesbian Experience.
― Nitsuh, Monday, 8 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
And the girl I mentioned upthread had her first relationship at uni with a guy who later came out. Go figure.
― suzy, Monday, 8 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Sterling Clover, Monday, 8 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Arthur, Monday, 8 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
*Tank Girl would have been crap anyway, but she made it a gazillion times worse.
― Nicole, Monday, 8 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
mallrats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
― wtf finding HOOS is a hood classic (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:08 (sixteen years ago)
mallratsfuckinmoneysmoothies
― wtf finding HOOS is a hood classic (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:10 (sixteen years ago)
i fuckthesehoesafterour shows
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:11 (sixteen years ago)
in 7th grade i was silent bob for halloween
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:11 (sixteen years ago)
mallrats i love but chasing amy is horrible.
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:11 (sixteen years ago)
I thought his charm for those he charms is about being a grown-up make-a-movie-in-our-backyard guy, and a good Catholic kid underneath the troublemaking. So more about heart than about tight.
full disclosure: I was an extra in Mallrats but haven't seen the whole thing. I'm in the yellow winter coat at 0:05:
― Eazy, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:12 (sixteen years ago)
He has hardcore fans?
― Alex in SF
http://www.viewaskew.com/newboard/index.html
― shook pwns (omar little), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:13 (sixteen years ago)
i havent seen this movie since i was 18 btw
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:14 (sixteen years ago)
heres an opinion that ive thought about and havent really decided if i believe: mallrats >> clerks bcuz the girls are hotter
― xhuxk d (deej), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:15 (sixteen years ago)
also it's funnier
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:16 (sixteen years ago)
wouldn't dogma be the best by that logic because salma hayek's in it? but dogma is the worst one.
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:17 (sixteen years ago)
affleck & damon in dogma are probly my fav thing in any kevin smith movie but unfortunately then theres the rest of it
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:19 (sixteen years ago)
matt damon is funny in dogma but that movie is so dumb
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:20 (sixteen years ago)
ks is one of those filmmakers where if he was a band i would buy his greatest hits collection and not bother with the albums
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:20 (sixteen years ago)
well clerks & mallrats are in the same league, i basically really dislike dogma so the little things like that dont really matter much
― xhuxk d (deej), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:20 (sixteen years ago)
i watch dogma just for affleck/damon lolz
― wtf finding HOOS is a hood classic (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:21 (sixteen years ago)
seriously linda fiorpassantino in that is probly the worst performance in any mainstream film ever made ever
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:21 (sixteen years ago)
o i see. i like clerks but mallrats has jason lee so it is better.
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:21 (sixteen years ago)
i feel like i have a much larger tolerance for dumb armchair philosophizing when it comes to lol relationships/sex a la chasing amy than i do for religion -- dogma is really challops: the movie isnt it?
― xhuxk d (deej), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:21 (sixteen years ago)
she's made for shit like after hours and last seduction. i feel like she was trying some garofalo thing in dogma.
― shook pwns (omar little), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:22 (sixteen years ago)
omg i had forgotten about linda fiorentino she was terrible! i don't know how she ever got away with that whole deadpan means i'm clever, not a terrible actor thing.
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:22 (sixteen years ago)
1 clerks2 zack and miri3 chasing amy4 jay & silent bob strike back5 mallrats6 jersey girl7 clerks 28 dogma
― DANCE MUSIC STUCK AT RECOMBINANT PLATEAU (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:32 (sixteen years ago)
crazy talk
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:33 (sixteen years ago)
not even
― DANCE MUSIC STUCK AT RECOMBINANT PLATEAU (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:34 (sixteen years ago)
dogma is really challops: the movie isnt it?
Hahaha YES.
― Pashmina, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:35 (sixteen years ago)
actually i haven't seen half of those and otm on dogma but no way is chasing amy better than mallrats even though the half of mallrats that's about jason london and that beestung lip girl is boring.
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:35 (sixteen years ago)
id put jay & silent bob at the top, then clerks, then mallrats & chasing amy, dogma, clerks 2, aint seen the other ones
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:36 (sixteen years ago)
actually maybe clerks 2 was better than dogma but i was like 16 when i saw dogma and like 24 when i saw clerks 2 also the whole view-askewniverse fan service b.s. bugs me
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)
funniest bit in mallrats is when ethan suplee looks at shannon doherty and goes "...brenda?"
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)
i liked jay & silent bob but now i can't remember anything about it also jason lee as brodie should have been in it for longer <3 <3 <3
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)
ethan suplee is generally hilarious in mallrats
affleck in jay & silent bob is great
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:38 (sixteen years ago)
at least i think theres one thing we can all agree on re: dogma
Maladeisia (1 month ago) Show Hide0 Poor comment Good commentMarked as spamReply | SpamLetting me see Chris Rock naked was enough to get this movie 8 stars.
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:39 (sixteen years ago)
o_O
― horseshoe, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:39 (sixteen years ago)
lol "8 stars" is such a weird number of stars
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:40 (sixteen years ago)
this is good acting imo
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:41 (sixteen years ago)
― and what, Monday, January 12, 2009 3:37 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Strike Back is full of fan service in-jokes and more often than not hilarious...Clerks 2 is fan service jackoff sesh reflection for losers who care about what "Dante" and "Randal" are up to in 2k6.
― some dude, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:43 (sixteen years ago)
it does feature rosario dawson admit shes into atm
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:43 (sixteen years ago)
yeah xxxactly - clerks 2 was all fan fictionary but the nerd joeks in strike back was like "affleck you the bomb in phantoms yo!!" loool
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:45 (sixteen years ago)
it's not like i can hate on rosario dawson shakin titties on principle or something, but her whole character in that movie is some pretty laughable fantasy girl shit even by the standards of kevin smith movies
― some dude, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:47 (sixteen years ago)
also strike back features a live performance of jungle love by morris day and the time while clerks 2 has a wistful montage set to smashing pumpkins
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:47 (sixteen years ago)
last two posts otm
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:47 (sixteen years ago)
xp yeah i love some rosario dawson but theres something depressing about how in the last couple years she got conscious of her nerd-ass fanbase and started droppin star wars refs in every interview
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:48 (sixteen years ago)
lol
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:49 (sixteen years ago)
mallrats is the only one i'm not afraid of rewatching & hating (thus ruining teenage memories)
i remember laughing at j&sb strike back but don't remember any of the actual jokes.
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:50 (sixteen years ago)
I think he's a nice guy and should run that comic-book store fulltime
― Dr Morbius, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:51 (sixteen years ago)
gus van sant counting money is lolsy
― 8====D ------ ㋡ (max), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:52 (sixteen years ago)
man i forgot jon stewart was in this
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:55 (sixteen years ago)
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTY3NTYxMTAyMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwOTI5NjY1._V1._SX287_SY400_.jpg
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2009 20:55 (sixteen years ago)
is it bad that i laffed every time they said 'clit' in that
― and what, Monday, 12 January 2009 20:57 (sixteen years ago)