Jessica Lynch Ad Nauseum.

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Do you care? Do you consider her a hero? What about the others in her team? What about Shoshona Johnson? Are you as sickened and fed up as I am?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

have you missed the "military used me" angle to this story alex?

also i don't think it's possible for anyone to be as fed up as you

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I still love watching the footage of Jessica Lynch single-handedly tearing down the 80-ft statue of Saddam Hussein wearing nothing but a red, white & blue string bikini (she's an all-American girl, but she's also a little Brazillian, wink, wink)) while the greatful Iraqi peasants chant: "U-S-A! U-S-A-!"

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

lynch has been very brave and forthright in accusing the military of using and manipulating the incident for propaganda purposes; she says there was no other reason for them to film her rescue.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

ahem, GRATEful

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

have you missed the "military used me" angle to this story alex?

I have, and it was briefly heartening, but it's not like she's tried very hard to undo said angle.

.....also i don't think it's possible for anyone to be as fed up as you

Hmmmm. Probably true.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

you just seem fed up a lot is all

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

did anybody see "saving jessica lynch" on american TV? it was purported to be quite "unheroic" in its portrayal of the rescue and prior etc

Alex i don't think that's quite fair, she was FURIOUS at the military and the media and excoriated them in no uncertain terms

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

She was an upcountry girl from West Virginia who realized that the king's shilling (version 2.0) was, in this country/economic climate, one of her few realistic options in terms of getting a leg up and doing something more. A few geopolitical idiocies and media overload later, she's been able to flat out say that the mythmaking around here was crap. Never met her, never will, but she's one of the few known names in this year's debacle who I can say I'm proud of as a fellow citizen.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex i don't think that's quite fair, she was FURIOUS at the military and the media and excoriated them in no uncertain terms

Didn't stop her from snatching up a book deal, though, did it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you have any idea how little Privates get paid?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't stop her from snatching up a book deal, though, did it.

Considering what she's done with it, THAT'S entryism.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

You forgot the part where she skydives with President George W. Bush from a C130 through heavy flak onto the deck of the U.S.S. Yorktown. That was awesome!

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you have any idea how little Privates get paid?

Maybe she should've considered that before signing up.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

This is interesting, 'cause over here in the yuk, I have to say it's all been Oooh, Jessica Lynch is a hero yee-haw and there's been nothing about her "they used me" angle. I mean, it was easy enough to read between the lines in the articles written about her, but I haven't seen anything reporting on her negative viewpoint.

But I haven't really been looking, either.

― Catty (Catty), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember at the start of the war Danny Bonaduce, in between taking potshots at celebrities who spoke out against the war, held a food drive for military families because since they were now getting danger pay they were no longer eligible for food stamps (but still not able to feed the kids, obv.).
That sickened me. Not just that the US Gov't would send these kids off to die, but that they couldn't even give them a decent wage to do so. And then that a-hole Bonaduce had the gall to defend the Gov't for doing so (though feeding kids is never a bad thing).

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

um, not that I know the circumstances for her enlistment or anything, but fifteen years ago when I was getting out of high school, I briefly entertained enlistment because they promised to pay for my education. Privates don't earn much but I bet it's more than what most McWorkers make. And you don't have to join a gym!

― Catty (Catty), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

It's reported that she signed up "to see the world," not to make her fortune.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

dont be a dick alex

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

pot, kettle

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

tomato, tomahtoe

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

to-matos

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Two Matos?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

matos' toes

― goato mountington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean just think about the options available to someone newly out of h.s. from a area of the country never that healthy economically, from a decidedly unwealthy family and a so-so educational background. isn't the idea of paying for your education and getting to live in a foreign country enticing? i mean just try to stretch your social imagination a little...

(x-post)

hi jess!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

As far as presenting serieses-of-events in a way that they never actually occurred in order to influence the opinions of the viewers, this is pretty lite-grade stuff though really.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

thats true people started questioning the gov'ts version of events almost immediately, but for the center of the story to do so is pretty courageous and remarkable

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Nobody stops to consider what "seeing the world" means as a member of the armed forces. Being stationed overseas sounds exciting but once you're out of the US's heavily propagandist borders and find yourself occupying a patch of country where the natives resent your presence and want you out I'm sure it's less exciting. being a U.S. ex-pat is a lose-lose situation. Everybody hates you and blames you for your government's actions. Like anyone on this planet has a say in what their government does.

― Catty (Catty), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

but thats not always the case i met a bunch of people in the air force who got on really well with the italian locals.

it depends on where the military puts you.

where is MILLAR?!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, you'd think the gov't PR people would have, y'know, taking better pains to ensure she'd be onside.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

does anyone else remember that study from last year that found that the us had the most favorable reputation in...uzbekistan?! (or maybe it was krgyzstan.)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

my dad got on well with the Italians when he was in Italy. Or maybe Italy is a really friendly place.

I suppose not acting like a jackoff would also help.

― Catty (Catty), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't stop her from snatching up a book deal, though, did it.

why shouldn't she grab her chance to make a fast buck?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

why shouldn't she grab her chance to make a fast buck?

Because it's a fast buck at the expense of the truth.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

and this upsets/surprises/disappoints you?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

really her own book contradicts what she's telling to the press now?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Her own book isn't out yet, though, is it?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

(she did not write the one above, needless to mention).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm "on side" with alex here. i haven't heard shit-all about jesica making the slightest attempt to straighten out the actual facts. although in her defence she probably could use the money - lets face it, if she was all that well off there's a 99.9% chance she would not be in the army.

the whole thing makes me want to puke.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Of Course she could use the money -- but it sort of yanks the rug of credibility out from under her, no?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

are you pillorying (sp?) her for being the subject of a book she didn't write?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post
yes. but i do feel for her - stuck between a rock and the u.s. military.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure you have all seen this, but just in case.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/990040.asp?

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

all authors get paid you know, alex

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

those dirty whores!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

actually i suppose some don't but that stinks

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Read this thread and then post, it may help.

Also, the lead story on "60 Minutes" last night was about the Army mechanic who was the real hero in the whole situation (took out 7 Iraqi soldier about to fire a mortar at the tractor-trailer that Jessica Lynch's truck ran into - while being a lousy shot) and how nobody knows who he is because of the Lynch hype. Shoshanna Johnson and another injured g.i. at the scene were interviewed as well.

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

What does this book title mean? She's a soldier, in addition to being something else? She's as much a soldier as the other soldiers?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

a soldier & a propaganda tool

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

...and a pawn of Satan.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 225 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

alex I believe it was you who dubbed jessica lynch the 'spawn of satan' so don't hang it on our heads for lowering the tone of your thread

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Look, Jessica's role should be as a propiganda puppet for the radical left wing, not the Pentagon.

I assume at this point your tongue is piercing your cheek.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"pawn of Satan!" It was "pawn," dammit!

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm sorry i almost started off by insulting you alex but i was very put off, i find some of things you accused ms lynch of quite inflammatory. and i think despite the insults there have been good arguments made here that you might mull over.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I called her a pawn of Satan, Blount, not spawn, and I believe I was called a "dick" prior to that so don't blame me either.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever. You can all go out and buy the inevitable Jessica Lynch action figures.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i called you a dick btw because i was bothered by the implication that people who join the military are all jingoistic self-deluded fools who can be singularly held responsible for military policy....

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

right, because there's nothing in between your views, Alex, and that of a flag-waving bozo.

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

wow alex i'm going to insult you again and say that for a 30something you have an amazingly hard time having your mind changed or even countenancing new ideas

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

forget it amateur!st, he's right, we're wrong - let's just go buy our action figures and wave our flags.

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

If I wasn't at work, I would post a picture of breasts here to distract the testosterone fueling this misguided argument.

Also, IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS IT SHOCKING OR SURPRISING THAT ALEX IS BEING OBSTINATE AND STUBBORN IN THE FACE OF ALL CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE???

Also, I cordially invite Fletrejet to fuck off.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

right, because there's nothing in between your views, Alex, and that of a flag-waving bozo.

Stence, it's the flag-waving bozos that want to make her some sort've icon!!!!!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is kinda weird to read from a UK perspective, as we haven't really been saturated with the story AT ALL, in fact, the average bloke on the street would be forgiven for not knowing who Jessica Lynch was AT ALL, let alone anyone else mentioned on this thread.

The wanting to joint the army "to see the world" line does disturb me - but that's mostly because from my priveleged middle-class English background I can't imagine anyone who wanted to see the world using the army as an early point of call - so ignore that. Especially as it seems to dovetail with the fact that she joined the army and ended up getting sent to Iraq after being turned down for Wal-Mart. Quite frankly, it scares me that real opportunities can be that scarce in any rich, developed nation (this isn't petty point-scoring - I'm sure it happens in the UK as well).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah dan it's not shocking or surprising but it's depressing

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

AT ALL in capitals TWICE! Has any Ilx0r ever been so keen to trumpet their own ignorance, I wonder?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

well yeah Alex I meant that you seem to think that there's only extreme poles of which to view this: either your "correct" position or that of a "flag-waving bozo."

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

well matt the us is fucked up in a lot of ways

it's expensive to travel abroad, out of reach for many people

the army will send you to germany...italy...turkey...japan...

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

well yeah Alex I meant that you seem to think that there's only extreme poles of which to view this: either your "correct"
position or that of a "flag-waving bozo."

Pardon me, Stence. I'm feeling a bit defensive, and in my ire I read that as an assertion that I was in some way a "flag-waving bozo". Bozo, maybe, but never a flag-waver, thank you very much.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think you're a bozo, just really really inflexible sometimes (but that's no sin).

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

it is in the bedroom

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

depends what you mean by "inflexible" there, Blount!

― hstencil, Monday, 10 November 2003 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And incidentally, I have a cousin in the air force and a dear friend from high school in the Coast Guard. To paint me with a brush that suggests that I think every solitary individual in the armed forces is a cop-out and a disservice. My opinion regarding the Lynch family has more to do with quotes from the woman herself (that she felt obligated to serve) and an interview with her brother on CNN, wherein he vociferously extolled the merits of the war and emphatically declared his desire to go do his part. THAT sorta line is the stuff that puts me off.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

ok...sorry alex. i might have been reading in a bit.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Goddammit... the sentence that read..."to paint me with a brush that suggests that I think every solitary individual in the armed forces is a cop-out and a disservice", should've read....

to paint me with a brush that suggests that I think every solitary individual in the armed forces is a jarheaded, jingoistic warmonger is a cop-out and a disservice..

::::sigh::::

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, Alex, if you work right in the midst of the mainstream media, and are as disgusted as you seem with sensationalism of these kinds of stories.. why don't you try to stem the tide of this junk? How does this happen? It would have been great, say, if the major media had done much tough coverage of the current administration before we got into this mess.. but apparently Kobe Bryant and Laci Peterson et. al. are more important, particularly on CNN.

― daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

why don't you try to stem the tide of this junk?

Okay, I'll just march right into the managing editor's office and flush my job down the toilent, shall I? Yeah, GOOD PLAN!

For what it's worth, this mess predates Kobe and Lacey et al., and the particular magazine I work for can hardly be accused of focussing on the postive aspects of the current administration's handling of said mess.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101031006cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030901cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030721cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030714cov_white.gif http://i.timeinc.net/time/images/covers/1101030303cov_white.gif

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Per Drudge, Hustler will publish topless photos of Lynch. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely, you must understand that negotiating and promoting your point of view as regards what is newsworthy does not require doing so in a way that entails flushing your job down the toilet.

I'm just saying.. not imagining that you could stop the major media feeding frenzy but you know, slow it a little bit at least. Anyway, what is the rationale.. do you find most media people feel a sense of responsibility to report on real news? Are they thrilled to report on Jessia Lynch 'cause it's the hot new story or doing this grudgingly or completely ambivalent and just going with the flow?

― daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0780622561.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Meanwhile, 130,000 troops (102,000 active military and 28,000 reserve) are on duty in Iraq. As of yesterday, according to the Pentagon, 394 US soldiers have died in the war. Meanwhile, 5000 to 10000 Iraqi civilians have been killed.

There's more important stories to be outraged over than Jessica Lynch.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The Bush II administration continues to erode veteran benefits so I'm not surprised at all that Lynch went for the cash. I don't blame her at all.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Happy fucking Veterans Day

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

My dad, who worked in various coal mines in West Virginia, has a friend of his in the business who happens to know the family of Jessica Lynch. He said that Jessica's father is aghast at all this, as is Jessica herself, and absolutely none of the shit that themedia has been reporting is true - and also that Jessica NEVER sanctioned the making of any tv movie of her ordeal...

He said they were sort of more pre-occupied with her health condition, and how so many of the bones in her body were broken at the time. I just don't understand how anyone can accuse this battered, crippled twenty-year old girl of being a cash-cow-type-of-calculating mastermind, or desirous of the praise of "winning" a bronze medal she never asked for in the first place. She can't even walk right, for fuck's sake

― Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Well at least Larry Flynt is offering to help. Ugh.

― Chris Hungus (Chris V), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops, wrong link.

― Chris Hungus (Chris V), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

hm, that led to a sport-news msnbc site. but i hope you don't mean what i think you do

oops x post

― Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

She was sodomised by the Iraqis?

― Catty (Catty), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

No, Dan, it's nothing shocking at all.

Also, I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware there are far more disgusting things going on in this conflict than this controversy here; but if this controversy here brings attention to the issues at hand then (that's a good thing) (TM).

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The media prints what the pentagon wants them to. I blame Jessica Lynch.

― lawrence ks, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

YHBT. YHL. HAND!

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ally i don't know much about copyright law but i don't think you can trademark that last statement.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't understand, I just trademarked this entire thread.

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

ALLY

"And That's a Good Thing!" (TM)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I gather the right-wing smear machine is gearing up and already starting to trash the poor girl. There is a good piece on this over at the Billmon weblog. I think it'll backfire big-time on the right-wingers if they really insist on making a stink over her choice to speak out and tell the truth. I mean, it also makes me think that people are just going to be more pissed at the major media in general if they won't let her alone.

I sincerely sympathize with her and her family, having to put up with this while she's trying to recover..

― daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.msnbc.com/news/992478.asp?cp1=1

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 13 November 2003 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw this interview, and Jessica Lynch seems like a truly nice girl probably way in over her head with all this, simply expressing her opinion on how she was used.

My Ryan Adams-loving roommate made fun of her accent.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 13 November 2003 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Not trying to further stir the pot, but wanna get mad? Read this crap...

http://www.militarycorruption.com/PFCLynch.htm

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 13 November 2003 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

that site doesn't seem too reputable whatever it is

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 13 November 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

...hence my usage of the word "crap".

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 13 November 2003 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

God, the poor woman, to go through all this crap.

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 13 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

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