kissing cousins

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cousin lovin': revolting and deviant or fair game?

(for the sake of argument, you do not live in west virginia/newfoundland/whatever region is the butt of such jokes in your locale)

(nb: i have no cousins)

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Revolting if you are blood related if it's by marriage then I guess it's ok morally. I think it's all pretty icky though!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ewwwwwww.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I was actually reading about "degrees of kinship" and how certain cultures have differing names for them, often based on whether you can sleep with them or not!

Apparently, up until 1215, you could only marry someone if they were unrelated to you for SEVEN GENERATIONS BACK. Considering how small populations were, this must have been quite hard. In 1215, this was legally changed to four generations, i.e. you couldn't marry anyone with whom you shared a great-grandparent.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, and in some parts of the world it makes a difference whether one is referring to cross cousins (eg. mother's brother's son/daughter) or parallel cousins (eg. mother's sister's son/daughter). It all seems rather arbitrary really. But given the fact that nearly every group of people throughout history has had some sort of sexual taboo based upon degrees of familial separation, there must be some basis for it. One would hope.

caviat: i too have no cousins whom i am even remotely in contact with. don't know if this effects my views.

― mouse, Friday, 14 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it icky because you presumably know them as family, or is it fundamentally icky? What if it were a long-lost cousin you'd never met, or if you didn't know until it was too late?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

is it okay to kiss someone else's cousin?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

One of my schoolfriends used to kiss her cousin. If you don't know them very well I'd say it was ok to secretly fancy them. But still unwise to shag or marry them.

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

No.

x-post

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

[you could only marry someone if they were unrelated to you for SEVEN GENERATIONS BACK -> this is STILL true in Indian families, or else it's considered very bad for the genes of the offspring! and that's supposed to be according to the scriptures (even though they weren't describing factors such as "genes," but using other words). the parental arranging-marriage thing comes into play here; i remember when my brother's was being looked into, this couple came to talk to my folks about their daughter's eleiginility, but since it turned out we had the same kinship/caste name (shared 7 generations spreading out horizontally on the family tree), it was considered an ileligible proposal. so evreyone laughed and drank tea and then left]

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i think within some Islamic communities it is somewhat more accepted. it was certainly okay with the Egyptians, and a lot of Biblical peoples

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, incest taboos have their basis in the terrifying genetic results of inbreeding. But the reason that they exist is that inbreeding is actually attractive on some level! I mean, the general "litter mate" disgust at the idea of having sex with a sibling or close cousin seems to be inate. But "studies" have shown that close relations raised apart without knowledge of their relation are actually *more* likely to be attracted to each other. (Possibly because people are likely to be attracted to be subliminally attracted to people that resemble them, or that resemble their parents.) So societal taboos *have* to be strong as well as "innate" disgust.

HSA was telling me last night that due to migration patterns of people, and the vast genetic diversity this has brought, it's actually *safer* (in terms of potentiality of birth defects) to marry a first cousin now than it was, say, 200 years ago or so.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, Adam and Eve's daughter must have put out for her brothers innit.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, Adam and Eve's daughter must have put out for her brothers innit.

There's actually a Biblical or Apocraphyl explanation for that, but I can't remember what it is...

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

sudden appearance of the Land of Nod

― Ed (dali), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, fun & games round Kate & HSA's gaff! Why don't you talk about embroidery and kittens like everyone else?

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

We'd rather talk about science and genetics and history and culture and Logical Positivism and "Bloody hell, HSA, would you PLEASE move the oscillators so we can have supper?"

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

he has oscillators? wow!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i like that she doesn't just call him HSA on ILX

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

And oscilloscopes, too!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

And ocelots?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

aha but has he got one of these:

http://www.blacet.com/BZ.html

(I'm only boasting b/c I got one yesterday, and am 1/2 way thru assembling it)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

No, that's not what his look like. I now have a project for the weekend! To get HSA to take a photo of all his oscilloscopes and oscillators and click generators and post it to the net so you and Noodles can PH33L THE PH34R!!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

One of my friends made out with a girl, then found out a couple of nights later (from his mom at a school concert they were all at) that they were second cousins and had played together as kids.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i shd really spend some time taking some better pics, but:

http://www.vietgrove.com/bikey/09lambda.JPG

http://www.vietgrove.com/bikey/chroma.JPG

(likely to be the most interesting:)

http://www.vietgrove.com/bikey/modular.JPG

http://www.vietgrove.com/bikey/multimod.JPG

http://www.vietgrove.com/bikey/pedz2.JPG

I am a complete geek haha.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, what a x-post!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Only on ILx could the conversation move from incest to oscilloscopes.

― Anna (Anna), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a crush on my cousin when I was 6 and he was 9. Now I have an oscilloscope.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a crush on my cousin when I was 4 and he was 14. Now he has mega carb face.

― Mandee (Jerrynipper), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a couple of Muslim friends who have married their first cousins.

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"ileligible" -> ineligible

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis Presley to thread.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 14 November 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently there have been a lot of famous people who married their first cousins, including Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

There seems no obvious scientific or moral argument for drawing the line between acceptable and unacceptable in any precise place, and the birth defects one is very weak in general. Given that I have a vasectomy and that I was adopted (this is true, not just a for the sake of argument posit), what would be the moral or scientific reason for me not to have a sexual relationship with someone who, I found out at some point, is actually my sister/1st cousin/2nd cousin/whatever?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 14 November 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

The argument that inbreeding caues birth defects just does not hold water. By marrying close relatives you are just as likely to wind up with two copies of a desireable recessive allele as a harmful one. Moreover, inbreeding would actually help to purge the gene pool of recessives which are deadly but haploinsufficient.

However, one might make an argument that if one were allowed to go about marrying their mother/brother/father/sister role confusion would develop.

― mouse, Friday, 14 November 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

my much older cousins married & then divorced. Scottish - he: son of my father's sister. she: daughter of my father's brother.
i didn't know them till i was about 9 but just took it as given. So it is certainly legal in the UK but i do understand the 'ooh that's not right' feeling.

― Jack St E (Jack St E), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Did you mean Jerry Lee, Johnney?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

This was how we were taught the alphabet in Primary School, the Letterland system. Annie Apple was A, Clever Cat C, Hairy Hat Man H, and Kissing Cousins were X.

I have nothing else to contribute, so I'll go now...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Very nice pictures Pash.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, I have met two girls who have admitted to being inbred in my life and they were both COMPLETE MENTALISTS. QED.

(Actually, not QED in the slightest because in order to admit to being inbred in polite company one would HAVE to be a complete mentalist, and therefore I could have met loads of perfectly nice inbred people without realising)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

There may not be a "moral reason" for the incest taboo, but morality is subjective (and relative) and is difficult to argue over in such discussions either way, especially in a secular/humanist forum such as this. I myself have unconventional ideas about incest between siblings, but as for Martin's question, I think for many people the conception, ideal, and fantasy of a sexual partner is very different from what one "normally" finds in a sibling relationship (when you've been brought up together - adoption at a late age can be the wild card here). So maybe it's a matter of differing relationship roles and functions, and thinking about the cases in sheer numbers, most want to keep these roles different, if only for the sake of conventionality in addition to the other reasons (morality, etc) already mentioned. Also, perhaps the family unit's unconscious desire to expand beyond its own borders for the sake of dominance ina society comes into play here as well.

numerous x-posts..i'm such a slow typist

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

For cousins, if it is a close extended family and you see them often, a similar sort of "role confusion" can follow.

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Pash: I also have not seen a Dimension C for quite a long time... hahah.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

http://movieposterbiz.com/American1/kissin%20cousins.jpg

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 14 November 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

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